00:00:00:00 - 00:00:10:00
Unknown
Right.

00:00:10:01 - 00:00:30:14
Unknown
What's up? Adam is up here. You know what we're doing today? No. The greatest album of all time. Oh. Songs in the Key of Life. That's good. That's, in fact, great, but no. Thriller. That's good too. But no.

00:00:30:16 - 00:00:39:06
Unknown
Kind of blue. Kind of. No. Well, give me a hint. I got you.

00:00:40:09 - 00:01:59:02
Unknown
That's a great call.

00:01:59:04 - 00:02:17:03
Unknown
I'm Adam, and I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the. You'll hear podcast music explore to explore today. Brought to you by Open Studio. Go to open studio jazz.com from jazz lesson needs. Peter. Yes. Big day. Big day. We said that before, and we were right. You know, we've been blessed with some amazing music we've been listening to.

00:02:17:03 - 00:02:33:01
Unknown
This is a fun job. I gotta say, of all the jobs I've ever had, it is is awesome. Sitting around here for an hour listening to an album with you. It's about as good as it can get. Yeah, but I mean, we've said I think we've come through on the big days in terms of just the level of artistry and the impact of some of the albums we're talking about.

00:02:33:01 - 00:02:54:10
Unknown
Talking book, you know, kind of blew these different albums we've explored. But are we going out on a limb by saying, asking the question, is this the greatest album of all time, comma. Period. Question mark? Well, according to rolling Stone magazine, we're not going out on a limb at all because they put it as the number one album of their kind of bass top five.

00:02:54:10 - 00:03:12:22
Unknown
I know that's what makes me nervous about it. I would have been okay with it, but once I found that out, was it was right before the pod started. It's so dumb to rank albums like that. Anyway, to say one is the best of all time or whatever, so let's do it. Now, this is obviously one of the great works of art of the 20th century.

00:03:12:22 - 00:03:34:06
Unknown
So great. I don't think there's any debate about that. It mixes an incredible commercial sound with an amazing message. It's a real master. Yeah, of popular music of the last half of the 20th century. At his peak, we're talking about, of course, Marvin Gaye's What's Going On. Ever heard of it? There it is. Yeah, it is masterpiece. One of the great records ever.

00:03:34:08 - 00:03:52:19
Unknown
And yeah, I'm excited to talk about this. I've. I've been with this music seemingly my whole life. Right. It's been around me. I've known it. Me too. And, been very lucky, actually, to do some shows with our good friend Brian Owens. Yeah. Where I had to do things, like, really figure out what was going on in the strings, what was going on, and the rhythm section.

00:03:52:19 - 00:04:15:23
Unknown
And that was really good early work for me as an arranger, because I think this is one of the most, pleasantly arranged albums of brilliantly, pleasantly, brilliantly. I mean, that's going to be a big part of what we talk about. This is a very jazz influenced record. I think we were just having a little bit of debate before we started, actually, because you were I was saying, is this possibly even even like the best selling jazz record of all time?

00:04:16:01 - 00:04:38:06
Unknown
And I said, no. Well, I mean, there's so much jazz, like without jazz and sort of the lineage and the development of the music and the musicians that are on this include, including Marvin Gaye. You don't have this record, you know. And so, yes, it's not strictly a jazz schlep I do now, but I mean, it is like there's so much jazz just dripping all over it.

00:04:38:06 - 00:04:59:06
Unknown
Is that how you hear jazz in your head? That's how some people do. I think this is a great example of where, you know, I first of all, you know, I love a genre. I love to be really dogmatic. If love is jazz, then this is jazz. Let's let's play that much. Okay. Oh, but this is this is why I love I love the term black American music to describe the lineage of this music.

00:04:59:06 - 00:05:15:03
Unknown
Yeah. Here where this has the same roots as a lot of the jazz we love and yeah, even some of the same people. But, I think this is, you know, in if you were going to put it into some kind of genre, it would be in the soul genre of soul or jazz, soul or soul, jazz, just soul.

00:05:15:07 - 00:05:31:22
Unknown
Okay. There you go. Well, this is good. Okay. Well, soul in order to places. First of all, this is exciting because this record, the music on this was recorded and born right around the time yours truly was born, within a couple of months in 1970. Great year for music. A tumultuous year in the world. Yeah, in the United States.

00:05:31:22 - 00:06:00:18
Unknown
A lot going on. Luckily, everything's been smooth sailing since. Well, and then I was born and everything. Everything got worse. But I just thought we could use, you know, Marvin Gaye was such a thoughtful person, and and and the way that he talked about his music and his career, he was a very sensitive artist. Obviously, you could hear that in his voice, but there was authenticity, you know, knowing some people that knew him and musicians that worked with him and stuff and hearing all the stories over the years, you know, a tragic figure, of course, as well, but just such a amazing artist.

00:06:00:18 - 00:06:20:23
Unknown
I thought I could share a couple of the words that he had about this album, the kind of frame where you go with this, Marvin said. In 1969 or 1970, I began to reevaluate my whole concept of what I wanted my music to say. I was very much affected by letters my brother was sending me from Vietnam, as well as the social situation here at home.

00:06:21:01 - 00:06:41:20
Unknown
I realized that I had to put my own fantasies behind me if I wanted to write songs that would reach the souls of people, I wanted them to take a look at what was happening in the world. And I think, you know, we aspire to this as artists oftentimes were afraid to or sometimes we get trapped in the just shut up and dribble, just shut up and play the piano kind of thing.

00:06:41:22 - 00:07:04:10
Unknown
But I think Marvin, you know, with all the commercial success he had before this, but also all the kind of professional tragedy, I mean, you know, Tammi Terrell had just died, I believe, right around this time he had this amazing duo, kind of segue into his career where he crossed over. I talked about it before. Yeah. How how the duos really dominated that, that time period.

00:07:04:11 - 00:07:23:06
Unknown
And it doesn't get any better than that. But it does. I mean, they kind of almost defined it in a way. Yeah. And then of course, his amazing solo career on Motown and stuff. But he had he had been really wanting to. Well, let let's hear him talk a little bit. I have an interview. This is now after the fact, talking about this period when.

00:07:23:08 - 00:07:50:20
Unknown
The world and well, the state of the Union was and well, the Vietnamese war was raging hot and heavy during that period that we conceived it. And there was a lot of unrest in America, college kids being shot on campuses. And my brother was at war, and I prayed a lot that he would come through safely. And it was a very, a very trying period for me at Motown, even.

00:07:51:02 - 00:08:17:11
Unknown
It was at the time I was struggling for some sort of, independence and some sort of recognition, and that's producing, trying to let the artist in me come to forefront and not be produced. And I love it. It's a theme of, Motown and some other labels that were like, here's what's great about I think what's great about Motown is because they were so detail oriented.

00:08:17:12 - 00:08:39:03
Unknown
Yeah. And, and kind of very restrictive about what they would let their artists do, right. And very controlling about their artists. And they had some of the greatest artists in music. Yeah. It's only inevitable. Yeah. These artists are going to break away. Yeah. I'm talking about Stevie Wonder. You ever heard Steve Allen Morris? Michael Jackson? Yeah, I'm talking about Diana Ross.

00:08:39:03 - 00:08:57:07
Unknown
Yeah, I'm talking about Marvin Gaye. They break away and do something absolutely amazing. They never break away. They just. They just yearn to kind of break free. Yeah. From people telling them what they can and can't do. And luckily Motown also train them up to be these. And I mean, they were already great artists, but like, you know, gave them this incredible toolkit.

00:08:57:07 - 00:09:19:21
Unknown
Yeah. To be able to make these albums even better. And so you put these geniuses into this like incredible training program essentially, and like, you get what's going on. You get to talking books. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And I mean to Berry Gordy and Motown on the business side, to their credit, they were even as these artists broke away, they were able to still keep a lot of that on Motown.

00:09:19:21 - 00:09:41:03
Unknown
They realized that even if they couldn't have control, they wanted that music there. And of course, this record is on, on Motown Tamla, which was the original imprint of Motown. And I think it's very interesting because this was right around the time when Stevie Wonder was working on. Yeah. Was it? Yeah. Talking book. And then, you know, the classic period when he was just turning he was ten years younger.

00:09:41:08 - 00:09:59:15
Unknown
Stevie Wonder is ten years younger than Marvin, but he was out of contract so he could kind of do whatever he wanted. Marvin was under contract. So it's a very interesting story about how this came about, because he kind of floated the idea. I mean, he was he was I mean, he was truly in the Motown camp. He was actually before this was married to Berry Gordy sister.

00:09:59:15 - 00:10:19:00
Unknown
I know he was in the Motown family that. Yeah, for sure. The family. Yeah. But he, he had was having these as he talked about these ideas about, you know, recording, more socially active and aware, content during this period. He really wanted to, for his personal reasons. And he had very specific ideas about sound and production.

00:10:19:18 - 00:10:47:02
Unknown
And coming up in the multi, I mean, one thing about Motown was like they had a quality control department, which is a crazy thing to think about where they they approved everything from the sound to the mics to the production to the lyrics and everything. Why it's so good, man. It's why it's so good. But when he had this idea and talk to Berry Gordy and the Motown folks about it, Berry Gordy was very much against it, he said, because he was really on the cusp and already was, was crossing over to the to the to the broader, wider audience in the international scene.

00:10:47:03 - 00:11:04:01
Unknown
He was already doing that, but he really felt like he could go even further with that. Berry Gordy felt like he. Yeah, exactly. And that he he probably felt that speaking out about some of these exactly. It was going to hamper that. Now, I don't know fully. I mean, I just you know, we've heard about this stuff. I know Berry Gordy has disputed some of this.

00:11:04:01 - 00:11:21:02
Unknown
I we don't want to we're not historians here. Allegedly, allegedly. You know, I'm sure it was something in the middle. But, I mean, you know, from a business standpoint is very much seen as like, you could see that. Yeah. Yeah. And so Marvin went in on June 1st, 1970, went to Hitsville, the Motown famous studios in Detroit.

00:11:21:02 - 00:11:42:17
Unknown
Of course, he was still living in Detroit this before he moved to LA. He's 31 years old and he had this song. The genesis of the song is a whole nother episode and sort of story. Some, some other musicians that Marvin knew kind of pitched him this song, and then they all kind of worked it out together for Marvin, kind of adapted it for this album, but he went in to record this and had this idea they didn't go and record the whole album.

00:11:42:17 - 00:11:51:07
Unknown
They just recorded this single. You might have heard of it. Let's go ahead and listen to a little better. 1970.

00:11:51:09 - 00:12:03:05
Unknown
I recorded Man. It's it's. It's.

00:12:03:06 - 00:12:53:12
Unknown
They wrote my mother. There's too many of you to cry. Brother, brother, brother. There's far too many of you died. You know, we've got back on to bring some love in here today. And. Father, father, we don't need to escalate it. See what's not the answer. For only love can come. You know, we've got to find a way.

00:12:53:14 - 00:13:21:08
Unknown
Those two lead vocals mixed together. To bring some love you can't hear today. Oh of pre-chorus. Kick it like stop and think inside. So don't punish me. Strength here, yeah. Oh my there. Rage. Restraint in control. To me. The placement so you can see. Oh what's going on. What's going on, what's going on. Yeah. What's going on.

00:13:21:12 - 00:13:43:21
Unknown
The great moments in music history. Right. Oh, man. 000 right. Right off. I mean the details on this, I mean, so this scatting that he was doing in there. Yeah. I don't fight terrorism. I don't.

00:13:43:23 - 00:14:05:14
Unknown
I'll be right here in this room. But do everything for me for my family. Yeah. So I mean, this is you know, does it get him more iconic than this in terms of, like, a record? The beginning of a record, you know? Yeah, yeah. And like the title track song. I mean, what a perfect like you're setting the bar high.

00:14:05:16 - 00:14:20:14
Unknown
How are we going to come through on the greatest album of all time after this track? Like, I mean, it's it's just stunning. It's just stunning. And can I nerd out a little bit? Yeah. Maybe we can talk about this in the nerd nook for our open studio members in more depth. But what happens there in that interlude after the chorus?

00:14:20:14 - 00:14:45:11
Unknown
Yeah, is a musical term called modal interchange. Right. And so the key of E, I believe you, major. Yeah, yeah. Key of E major. And so, you have the what's going on? What's going on, what's going on, what's go what's going on. And then the who big A minor. Yeah. Nine. Yeah. Almost like a minor 11. Maybe he goes up there like it's at least a minor nine because that's what the melody I think sits on the string line.

00:14:45:17 - 00:15:02:14
Unknown
But that chord is borrowed from the key of E minor. So you have E major and you have this little interlude that goes to E minor. Right. So you're in this sort of like there are all these major seven chords. Yeah. In there, and minor seven chords, like all seventh chords. And then it's all in this sort of E major reason.

00:15:02:14 - 00:15:24:02
Unknown
It's obviously he's speaking about something that's very heavy, but it, it hits you. Harder. Just when he goes oh and it's a foreshadowing to how the rest of the record is going to be to that a minor nine chord hits me in the heart more than any lyric you could possibly say. Yeah like that tells you the story of the song more than anything.

00:15:24:02 - 00:15:42:10
Unknown
It's like this bit of like darkness that can happen, this, like incredible mood that that takes over in that chord, in the string line, in the orchestration. Absolutely perfect. Absolutely beautiful. The whole arrangement. Stunning. Incredible move there. Yeah. It's just it's just perfection. And then even coming off of that for that a minor. Then they go to the five songs.

00:15:42:11 - 00:15:59:21
Unknown
Right. Which kind of brings it back a little bit. It's like a, it's like an extension an over a B yes chord there. But it takes us back into this like light of E major for a little bit. And I think that's the theme of this whole record in terms of the lyric, the harmony, like the crafting of this is between this.

00:15:59:21 - 00:16:19:18
Unknown
It never really goes super dark. No, I wouldn't say even though these I mean, it could. And that's part of the, the huge genius of Marvin Gaye is that he was able to talk about these issues poverty, the Vietnam War in a very personal and specific way. You know, children not being educated. These things that I mean, he's not using like metaphors and simile.

00:16:19:18 - 00:16:42:00
Unknown
He's talking about it. Yeah. And, but it still has like a joy and a timelessness and, a spirituality to it. A lot of spirituality on this. That's I think that that's sort of the, the major minor mix that we hear on this and a couple other of the tracks here on what's going on. It's almost always predominantly major.

00:16:42:00 - 00:17:08:05
Unknown
So yes, you instances and I think that is his you've got his love of spirituality, his, his spiritual philosophy shining through in the chord changes, which I know sounds like unlikely, but it I think it's incredibly powerful for me. It speaks as much as I love the lyrics, and as much as I resonate with how he's singing them, which we I really want to talk about his voice in a minute, but the harmony of this album, to me is like masterful in conveying the message of the album.

00:17:08:08 - 00:17:24:02
Unknown
Absolutely. And when we talk about production and arranging, which Marvin did, a huge amount of you produced this whole thing. And he arranged it. We're not just talk about, like the string arrangement or the horns and stuff. It's these kinds of things. Marvin, either wrote or co-wrote every single song on this record. Yeah, he produced the whole thing.

00:17:24:08 - 00:17:38:16
Unknown
He played it. But we're going to listen to a bunch of stuff people vibe. There's a better Stevie vibe on here. He's playing drums, he's playing piano. And then. But these little arrangement things, like when we talk about going to the harmony and stuff is like next level when you match that up with the feeling with the lyric and stuff like that.

00:17:38:17 - 00:17:59:21
Unknown
Well, and also it's the harmony on that, on that bridge. Again, I wonder if you can cue up that chorus. Yeah, from the beginning. But the string line itself, which starts on that. Yeah, that B right, which is the fifth of the key, as I say, goes up to, but it's the nine of the A minor right becomes the most one of the most iconic melodies and a through line melodically through the entire album.

00:18:00:02 - 00:18:31:15
Unknown
Right. You know, we've got to find a way to get like stop and think. There's the pre-chorus. Yeah. 0.02255 back and forth, James Jamerson killing it. I know, and I can see all of this in the imagery. Wonderful. And E major is a very like half major six chord, just like the verse going on, but by like, can you hear the string now going, you might think a minor nine.

00:18:31:17 - 00:19:05:09
Unknown
But right. By the choir you're gonna go, oh, what's the name of this right now? I love I like this part here. Thank you. I'm not to the five stars. Forget it. Yeah. So great. So great. Yeah. So, all right, we're going to get into I got some, some interesting, things for us to listen to on this, but I just want to say first, in terms of like the story for this, they recorded the just this track.

00:19:05:09 - 00:19:25:00
Unknown
They didn't record the whole album. He had the concept and had already started writing a lot of the stuff. Berry Gordy heard it and it was just like, no. Among other things, he said that scatting Dizzy Gillespie stuff, that old shit. Nobody wants to hear that. Did he really? Yeah he did. Oh my. Now again, allegedly, because that's I guess Berry Gordy never met a you'll hear listener.

00:19:25:02 - 00:19:42:20
Unknown
Yeah. And so to the point of like, they didn't want to release this as a single, and they didn't want a green light making the record, this protest record. Yeah. And so there was a little bit of a standoff because, like, he's under contract, but you can't make him go ahead and, you know, do something, but then he can't just release exactly what he wants.

00:19:43:01 - 00:20:08:19
Unknown
So there was a guy and I apologize that I forgot to get his name in there, but was another Motown executive that kind of saw the potential for this. And somehow behind I mean, Motown was a big operation by 1970. Yeah. You know, this was not like the little start up that it was. He worked with Marvin to finish off this track, get it mixed and stuff, put up 100,000 copies of this Bad Boy, get it out to the record stores, into the radio without Berry Gordy really behind his back.

00:20:08:21 - 00:20:27:05
Unknown
That's amazing. Yeah. And so they released as a single subversive, huge hit. Incredible. And to Berry Gordy's credit, after that happened, well, he was like, you know what, go ahead and make your protest record, he said. My only stipulation is you have to have it done in 30 days. I want this thing coming out immediately to, to to be able to piggyback on this amazing signal.

00:20:27:05 - 00:20:52:07
Unknown
That's a Peter Martin. That's a Peter move. Like, all right, get it done in three weeks. Right. At first. No. Absolutely not. Well so anyway, but that was a cool thing and just showed Berry Gordy's genius to be able to pivot like that. So really the record I mean the single came out in January of 1971 and then the, the whole record was recorded in ten days, March 1st through 10th, the rest of it nice.

00:20:52:19 - 00:21:12:03
Unknown
But it all came out of kind of the proof of concept with this track. Okay. So when we tie what I've got here is some interesting things on a couple tracks, but especially on this first track, what's going on? All the little details that you can hear, like at the beginning, you. Hey everybody talking. This is a bunch of the musicians, the Funk Brothers, as they're known.

00:21:14:00 - 00:21:34:15
Unknown
Think they're talking this Eli Eli Fontaine on alto sax. This is kind of an interesting story because much as what is it Tuesday heartbreak with Stevie Wonder and Dave Sanborn. Yeah, yeah, he was just sort of warming up over there. You talked about that. Yeah, yeah. On this. Two people who did that wasn't written in and Marvin heard him do that.

00:21:34:15 - 00:21:51:13
Unknown
He's like, oh my God, I love that we're keeping it. And Eli was just like, no, no, I was just messing around. He's like, no, no, no, we're using that. And so a lot of times arranging it's not just about what you write down or say, play this. It's like having that ear and producing. I keep saying arranging, but arranging a production in this kind of a record are almost inseparable.

00:21:51:15 - 00:22:12:05
Unknown
And so like Marvin had such an ear for like these details and the different parts how this rhythm. So that's kind of that initial melody because it's before Marvin singing. Right. But I mean, as soon as you hear that you're like, that's what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. So I just.

00:22:12:07 - 00:22:40:14
Unknown
And it sets up what he's doing. James Jamerson, my mother, there's too many of you. And if you listen to everything, it's happening rhythmically here. There's, of course, James Jamerson famously playing on this allegedly, inebriated. He's even like, yeah, that's his. He just come from a gig or whatever. Yeah. Anyway, I love all drums. Chet Forest famously not one of the Funk Brothers.

00:22:40:14 - 00:23:02:01
Unknown
I was going to say, yeah, this is somebody that Marvin had heard and brought in, like, so like Marvin was very, like, super involved with every with the personnel who was going to play, how this was going to happen. And, and then like how the rhythm tracks were, were, put together. Can, can we just go back a little bit to that saxophone thing and back to the Stevie and David Sanborn thing?

00:23:02:01 - 00:23:29:19
Unknown
I just heard this court this morning that I think, captures this, which is that, I think it was I heard, did you hear it on the grapevine? Yes. Some grapevine that the author, George Saunders, maybe. But, yeah. Talking about how, discovery is a more potent than invention. Right. So, like, yeah, we letting, like, some of these great geniuses that you think, like, there's so much of this album that's really thought through and the details are really, really.

00:23:29:20 - 00:23:55:12
Unknown
Yeah. You know, to, for lack of a better word, bespoke. Yes. Very. You know what I mean. But I think what Marvin. Stevie, I think what all great producers especially have in common is allowing for the room to discover. Yes. And and the power that discovery has. Yeah. Over invention where it can feel very forced and a little bit, you know, removed from the moment, but but just being like, yeah, I think that's it.

00:23:55:12 - 00:24:10:23
Unknown
Just your first impression of it, even when you're just figuring it out, maybe it's even that combination, you know, that that that ratio that they hit on this because some of the stuff as you say. Yeah. So like, well what's so specifically arranged. That's right. And play. But then these other things like when we get to the last track.

00:24:11:01 - 00:24:26:22
Unknown
Right, you know the bass line, we have some I don't know if it's a surprise for a lot of people, but that was not originally written that came up that Bob Babbitt, the basis came up with Inner City Blues. Exactly. Let's talk about that. But yeah, even the string arranging. Yes. From what I understand, yes, was very much like Marvin giving some suggestions.

00:24:27:00 - 00:24:48:02
Unknown
Yes. And, and you know, being at a piano. Yeah. And like, I'm sure he's not just coming up with it off the top of his head, but there are these just like melodies that will come. Yes. And him giving it to, I forget who those David David Van Tippett. Yeah. So he was the ranger and the conductor of the orchestra, and and I know that he talked about even feeling like Marvin was over arranging this.

00:24:48:02 - 00:25:07:17
Unknown
He was just like, sometimes I was just transcribing what Marvin was singing or playing. Great. You know, that's great though. Yeah. But obviously that was a collaboration there. You know, when things get to the preference, you know what I mean? Like. Yeah. Like, let's keep the melodies strong. Yes. How I feel about. And there's supposed to be some like, people think, oh, this is one of the greatest records of all time.

00:25:07:21 - 00:25:24:03
Unknown
Everybody was in this know. There was like, strife at times. And there was like the head of the record company saying, no, we're not going to release. And then someone put in the single, I mean, like, it doesn't all it's, it's the sausage being made is an adventure. Strife can make for some good art. This podcast is we are at each other's throats a minute before we come on.

00:25:24:03 - 00:25:40:22
Unknown
We're professionals. Right? Okay, so let's break down. I was thinking we've I've got almost everything on, love it. Separate it out. But I was thinking kind of like the rhythm track because it seems so like James J. Jamerson, and Chet Force, but drums and bass. Right. And make a request as we go through this whole course.

00:25:40:23 - 00:26:01:18
Unknown
Can we not rush it? I think our listeners will approve. They don't have to. We don't have a time constraint here. Can we luxuriate? Let's luxuriate on this incredible work of art. Well, you know what? We're going to start with something that seems very basic, but I think is integral to this whole album, almost every track. And that is the congas and or bongos and the way of which we sometimes, sometimes we don't know which is what.

00:26:01:19 - 00:26:18:03
Unknown
But this is Eddie Bongo Brown got some of that, but we think it's Congolese. But this is sort of that you'll recognize this, but to hear it separate it out is pretty amazing. I think.

00:26:18:05 - 00:26:30:05
Unknown
They'll sound like congas. They do sound like Kouga. Well, his name is not Eddie Conga Brown. Yeah, obviously he was a master of both.

00:26:30:07 - 00:26:41:08
Unknown
I mean, the pattern is so basic in a way. He's there on what's going on. Yeah, this is what's going on.

00:26:41:10 - 00:27:11:02
Unknown
There. But it feels the feel is so great. And then the little details when he changes it up a little bit. And this is not a loop youngins. Well. Okay. And then that's of course layered on top of Chet Force on drums. Well. Oh man, that bass drum sound. Come on.

00:27:14:21 - 00:27:34:23
Unknown
So very basic. Right? But when you add that in. With the James Jamerson live, which sounds even more basic than it does on the original track, when you hear it by itself. So. Good. Damn.

00:27:35:00 - 00:27:58:14
Unknown
It's the sound, man. I know it's the sound of the bass. Yeah, I forget what you call his finger. Is that hooking his finger? Oh, those triplets. We were talking about and is busy as sorry is as busy as he is when he puts the space famously busy, the spaces that he chooses. So important to. We were talking with our own, bass guru here.

00:27:58:14 - 00:28:19:14
Unknown
Bob, debut about the James Jamerson sound famously never changed his string. In fact, infamously, this is again, maybe a little bit of legend. Yeah, but I asked someone to weld his broken string back together because he was. I was born in just right, you know? Exactly. Yeah. And then we've got the piano, which I was shocked when I.

00:28:19:19 - 00:28:35:03
Unknown
When I check this out. I mean, this is it's guitar heavy in a way, but I never heard it is that I heard it more keys. But this is Marvin on the piano. Fantastic pianist. And.

00:28:35:05 - 00:28:40:05
Unknown
Very simple lines.

00:28:40:06 - 00:28:50:09
Unknown
Cleanly. Really nice.

00:28:53:03 - 00:29:14:12
Unknown
So, like, he really had an interesting ear, you know, obviously for vocal lines, for vocal backgrounds, but also for piano, like for single line stuff. That was counterpoint to what he was singing with the melodies. Now melodies are so important on this album. I just want to point that out one more time that this isn't just like a cookie cutter, like play some chords on the piano and play some chords on the guitar.

00:29:14:12 - 00:29:35:18
Unknown
Like everything of these interweaving melodies coming together between all the background vocals, the strings. Yes, of course there are chords and things, but like, there are so many melodies happening all at once. It's really even like you mentioned the two, the double lead vocals. Yes. Right. Yeah, like two separate takes of a lead vocal. Yeah. Two different concepts of a lead vocal put together.

00:29:35:18 - 00:29:52:16
Unknown
Incredible. Yeah. They're great. And I'll just like for, for folks that are like, wait, the melody. I thought that's what Marvin is singing. Well, but when we talk about counter melodies it's just I know it sounds counter to it, but it's just something else that's happening at the same time. Like that piano line. We're going to go back to the main track here.

00:29:52:18 - 00:30:21:23
Unknown
So obviously you've got all the love, you got the melody of the background block and spiel. Yes, the background vocals, vibes on here, brother, brother, brother, there's far too many of you. It's a lot of melodies happening on the, you know, we got vibes, vibes, melody. We heard a similar thing. Bring Some love in here. So good. We heard a similar thing on talking Brook.

00:30:21:23 - 00:30:46:14
Unknown
Yeah. Where Stevie's using that, that tanto synthesizer. Yes. Which was mostly monophonic and using all of these monophonic lines to weave together this tapestry of voices. Yes, it's an incredible tool and one that, if you make music, you should try. That's right. Right. Okay, so some other things kind of on the rhythm. Well, since we were just listening to it, that the vibes.

00:30:46:16 - 00:30:59:03
Unknown
Oof! Jack will catch up. This is when it gets to the a minor part that.

00:30:59:05 - 00:31:22:10
Unknown
A minor nine. Clusters in there. Yeah. You barely hear that. Yeah. In the. But that's again the range you like. But it's everything put together. You know, it makes that. And then the way it's mixed, on the rhythm side too. Yeah. We listen to the bongos, the drums. But there's a really important part. The box drum, which is like a I think it's almost the same, if not exactly the same as a cajon.

00:31:22:16 - 00:31:39:17
Unknown
Cajon singing cajon with a J. But it's cajon. Marvin is playing it on this and some other tracks too. But when you hear it you're going to. Yeah, I think you're going to feel what a big part of this whole apparatus it is.

00:31:39:19 - 00:31:55:10
Unknown
Oh. There's no snares on it. Oh come on usually has. Oh come on that snares okay. So so it's just like a box I think you sit on it. If I'm not mistaken.

00:31:55:12 - 00:32:13:02
Unknown
Cool. Yeah. But I mean like, that's such a big part of that combined with the regular drums. Interesting. I don't know if I've heard that. Like, it's almost hard to separate them, you know, but then when you hear it all together, it's like, can you hear that? Can you play the main track again? Let's see if I can hear that box drum.

00:32:13:04 - 00:32:18:19
Unknown
It's.

00:32:18:21 - 00:32:44:15
Unknown
Okay. But again, get more of the. That's too many of it really sounds like it's part of the drum set. You know. Yeah. I can't really pick it out on account. That's what you can kind of hear it in there. Yeah. Yeah okay okay okay. You okay then you hear the vibes. Like, after you start to hear. Really interesting.

00:32:44:15 - 00:33:19:05
Unknown
Yeah. Really interesting. Very cool. Upbeat. Yeah. And then the background vocals, there's a lot of background vocals. Almost a core like effect. Who's with Margaret? Who? Is that all? Marvin? I think it is. I should know that, well, looks like a writer rather, I don't know. I bet that's got more than one person in a room.

00:33:19:07 - 00:33:53:06
Unknown
Brother got the snaps. Yeah, brother. Brother, what's going on? Who? What's going on? I don't know, that sounds like, Oh, what's going on? Oh, that's a little bit of mixed in. Maybe that's the same, like with all these issues recorded in, just some group and, you know, and that's, you know. Yeah. And so that's the background vocals, the lead vocals, which you mentioned a second ago.

00:33:53:08 - 00:34:13:18
Unknown
Like what was common was the lead vocalist, Marvin Gaye in this case, would take several passes added over the rhythm track or whatever had been built up with. But on this record, he was singing a lot of these tunes, the melodies very differently, almost like he hadn't quite decided on exactly how it was going to come out on several of these tracks, what the final version was going to be.

00:34:13:20 - 00:34:32:10
Unknown
And so he recorded two vocal versions of this, at least two. And then something got with the mixing engineers. I mean, with the recording engineers got mixed up and he was like, let me hear both of those. I think Marvin meant he wanted to hear them each and choose between a but the engineer put them both together and then Marvin heard that he's like, oh, that's it really.

00:34:32:10 - 00:35:04:03
Unknown
And so it's off. I'm saying, man, it's discovery. Yeah. And so then they mix it with that. So this is Lee vocal one, the mother, which is the one most people going to be a there's too many of you right. Oh. Brother, brother brother. There's far too many of you dying. And his voice, you know, we've got to find a way in his intonation to bring some love in here today.

00:35:04:07 - 00:35:27:13
Unknown
And the range of emotion for the far tender to pushing. We don't need to. So that's the lead vocal one. You know very much the way we know the melody. Check out vocal two. Oh, mother, mother, there's too many of you cry. And this wasn't going to be like a harmony line. There's no no. There's a different version.

00:35:27:15 - 00:36:09:05
Unknown
Another way that you hear the melody. There's too many of you die. Each one a voice. You know, we've got to find a way to bring some love in here today. Before, man. So we spent a couple minutes talking about his his voice and Marvin Gaye as a singer. Yeah, for a minute, because I feel like. And I don't know how you feel about this, but like, one of the the things that make, the difference between, like, a good musician and good artist and a great artist is their ability to be vulnerable with their instrument.

00:36:09:05 - 00:36:31:06
Unknown
You know what I mean? I'm thinking I'm talking about Charlie Parker. You're talking about Miles Davis. I'm talking about Marvin Gaye. Yeah. I'm talking about Michael Jackson. I'm talking about Kurt Cobain. You know what I mean? I'm talking about all of these Prince, all these incredible artists that wear their heart on their t Swift, t Swift. I'm talking about all the chaperoned, all these incredible artists that wear their heart on their sleeve.

00:36:31:06 - 00:36:53:07
Unknown
Yeah. And within the first note that they sing or play, you know, exactly how they feel about the line. Then you know exactly how they're feeling about this. And it's it's projected to you. It's like a great actor that can seemingly do nothing but look at the table and you they're giving you context of the emotions that are happening in the scene.

00:36:53:09 - 00:37:13:20
Unknown
And I think Marvin Gaye is maybe the greatest at this. He wears his heart on this, which is what we were hearing talking in that interview in the beginning of this episode. You can hear it in his speaking voice. Yeah. Like he's there's there's nothing, seemingly nothing that he's hiding. Like he can't like it just comes out in the way he expresses himself.

00:37:13:22 - 00:37:33:03
Unknown
And it's a real I think it's a real God given gift because it's it's just so natural for him. Yeah. Every line he sings, you feel, every note that he sings feels like the emotion he's trying to project. It's a true master of that. Yes, true. I mean, really put him in there with Miles as far as, like, his ability to do that.

00:37:33:04 - 00:37:58:07
Unknown
Yeah. You know. Yeah. As you were describing that so eloquently, I was thinking, you know, that vulnerability that where your heart on your sleeve that that direct connection with the, with your instrument. Right. And how you how you then transmit that and connect with the audience. The other person I was thinking of was Billie Holiday that had that in her voice, like, that's I mean, Marvin Gaye, Billie Holiday and the others we mentioned too.

00:37:58:07 - 00:38:25:13
Unknown
But like, I don't that might be the apex moment for vulnerability of the Voice, you know? And it's, it's a stunning thing, really, you know? Yeah. And I think the reason that this record, even above all, possibly of Marvel's other really interesting and wonderful recordings, like everything kind of got dialed in, like because he was so involved with the production of the arranging, you know, these piano lines, the, you know, everything was a passion project.

00:38:25:13 - 00:38:42:20
Unknown
It was a passion project. Yeah. And then so that must have just placed his voice within that. So, so beautifully. You. But also it's he's in a sweet spot in his career. I mean he is he is at master mastery level. Yeah. Like you said, he's 31. He's been doing it for a while. Yeah. Highest level working with the best people.

00:38:42:21 - 00:39:04:02
Unknown
Yeah. And just his musical chops are unmatched right. Yeah. Yeah it's pretty great. So I had another little vocal thing I just love talking about this. Sounds like Dizzy Gillespie scatting, but this is a just kill a little vocal line. Talk to me. You know, so you can see what's going on. Just what's going on What's going on?

00:39:05:09 - 00:39:40:17
Unknown
What's going on? Woo hoo hoo hoo hoo! She's right on, baby, man. Right on. Hi. This is ya ya ya ya ya ya. Right, baby Rhino. Ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya. To the fight with Pippin. To beard who would be of food. And then just to fight on bruh. His instrument itself has this softness to it.

00:39:40:17 - 00:39:58:04
Unknown
Yeah, you know what I mean. It has this sort of like round edges. Yeah. Even when he gets gruff with the what's going on. Yeah. Like I was a little bit. Yeah. There's still a tenderness to his, to the voice itself. Yeah. It's really special. And then his rhythmic attenuation to people. But you to poop and then like how it layers layers over the harmony intonation spot.

00:39:58:04 - 00:40:12:06
Unknown
It's incredible. Yeah. Because I mean, there's some amazing vocalists that you pull it apart like this and you hear it, you're like, not quite like, oh, it's like I mean, like that's actually stunning that he's nailing those like thirds and going up to the minor nine. I just the way he's doing it with that, that kind of thing.

00:40:12:06 - 00:40:32:06
Unknown
And then you layer that on top of this brilliant music, this brilliant song that he wrote these incredibly poignant lyrics for the time. And you get maybe the greatest album in history, because you get some folk talking about layering. I think there's one part that we haven't included yet, and I think we've got pretty much everything else already, and this might be a part that's kind of interesting to you.

00:40:32:08 - 00:40:40:23
Unknown
I love this, really? Yeah, I love this.

00:40:41:01 - 00:40:50:06
Unknown
Oh.

00:40:50:08 - 00:41:20:21
Unknown
Single live strings. Octaves. Octaves, probably. Oh. That's a minor.

00:41:20:23 - 00:41:55:01
Unknown
One. You. And that's going back to the second verse. I mean, the string stuff on this. We could sit here and geek out on this and listen to this all day. But I can tell you. So it's David, Van Tippett, who was the conductor, an arranger on this. A really cool thing was this was all members of the Detroit Symphony Orchestra and, including the concertmaster, the legendary concertmaster, Gordon Staple.

00:41:55:03 - 00:42:15:18
Unknown
Like what you just heard there? In some ways, it's it's as an arranger. And like both of you and I have done string arrangement quite a bit. Some of that's relatively simple to, like, figure out and to understand what it is. But I can tell you that the, the level of playing on this, like you can tell it on the track with the, with everything, but when you break it apart, it's kind of like Marvin's voice.

00:42:15:18 - 00:42:35:06
Unknown
It's like you're like what? Like there's that level of like, I don't even want to say professionalism because that doesn't quite hit it. Just like great artists like you hear, that's five first violins, four second violins, four violas, three cellos and just one bass. It's not like a huge orchestra. It sounds like it. But you can hear the individuals playing.

00:42:35:16 - 00:42:56:22
Unknown
And a special shout out to Richard Margetts, on violin, whose son, Rick Margetts, some of you may know I've known for years, when I first went to New Orleans, was a great saxophone, was played with, Miles Davis to the end of his career. Has been living in Paris record from Blue Note records. That was his dad and Violet Lynn, legendary member of the DSO, which was one of the still is one of the great orchestras in the world.

00:42:57:18 - 00:43:16:01
Unknown
So I love that they didn't cut corners. They didn't get to say they went right to the 18, you know, section is amazing. You said it was five, five, four four, three one. So yeah, five firsts, four seconds, four violas, three celli and one bass and one bass. So that bass is so important. Yeah. When they hit that chord that a minor nine chord.

00:43:16:04 - 00:43:31:12
Unknown
Yeah. Like that's this actually changed my string arranging. And we're going to we're about to do an episode on versus the cool as well, which has, you know, obviously a bass player in the rhythm section and a tuba. Yeah. This album obviously has, you know, James Jamerson playing the electric bass, but you have an acoustic bass. Yeah.

00:43:31:12 - 00:44:03:08
Unknown
If you are writing for an ensemble with both, with both. If you're writing for an ensemble, do not skimp on the low end of the ensemble. Just that one tuba, that one bass player tuba in the winds or, or whatever, bass clarinet or contra bassoon. Or if you're doing strings like add a bass, a string bass to that ensemble, that changed everything for me as an arranger, because when I started, like, you know, when you first start out, you're like, well, we don't need the bass in the strings because you're not going to hear it or it's going to be too, too much down there, but it just fills out the chord in a

00:44:03:08 - 00:44:21:17
Unknown
way that you don't get otherwise. And so I love this instrumentation, because that's just enough musicians to make it sound incredibly full. And I think it's the the arranging itself is spectacular. All those the octaves, obviously with the violins on the top and probably the viola in the viola in a cello an octave down. Yeah. Active down. Yeah.

00:44:21:18 - 00:44:40:12
Unknown
And then like, they hit that chord. Man. Yeah. I mean, it's again, it's like details, but it's execution to know what I mean. It's, it's it's the vibe. I mean, you can hear it and I think all these like what makes this track great, it's like it's all that. Yeah. You know, it's everything's starting from the simplest, you know,

00:44:40:14 - 00:44:58:07
Unknown
Like, you don't have that. The thing doesn't work. You don't have obviously that. But also. Like, how do you even, like, think about combining these things and then it becomes, you know.

00:44:58:09 - 00:45:31:08
Unknown
It's. Let's go to that part with the. Since you gave us the gift of time. Right. We're going to go to that bridge. That. Oh what do you call that. The, the and the interlude. Yeah. When the strings do. See. Not so. The strings come in on the here today. Oh. On the pre-chorus. Here. Yeah. That's the first time they're punished and they're pretty far back in the mix still.

00:45:31:08 - 00:45:57:01
Unknown
Right. So now a a little more me to show. You can see. Oh what's going on. What's going on, what's going on. That was all that single line stuff we heard. What's going on. 000 sorry, sorry. Oh man I like I killed the vibe. I'm not. That was a little foreshadow going. Yeah, sorry. Oh, I got back there.

00:45:57:07 - 00:46:23:16
Unknown
Oh. What's going on? Oh come on. Oh, right. So far so good. And there's a little bit. Yeah yeah yeah. Also don't see if when you're doing the you're doing you're doing horns and you're doing strings in a big arrangement. Yeah. That single note line mixing up single note lines with chords. I mean, think about all that and then the mix.

00:46:23:16 - 00:46:42:23
Unknown
We got to talk about the mix too, because when you get all this great stuff, getting all this great stuff, and to do that, well, there's that Dizzy Gillespie jazz again. Nobody wants that. Right. But we do the mix for those that don't nerd out on this stuff but love this album. You know, the mix just beads. How the shit sounds, right?

00:46:42:23 - 00:47:03:02
Unknown
Yeah. Which sound good or not. It's like like that's the end result of a great mix, we should say. But the mix is like where you're placing, like, we heard those strings. There's. So when you it seems like. You know, all this dynamics and stuff. But within the mix they're, they're brought down until they're not, you know, at different times.

00:47:03:07 - 00:47:18:14
Unknown
And so making that decision like where does the bass lie? Where does the where does of course, Martin's main vocal, but then the vocal two is a little below. And then not only volume, but you're right, you're left in the center. Absolutely. A lot of decisions, a lot of good, especially in this dense. Really. Yeah, really a lot of to do.

00:47:18:14 - 00:47:33:05
Unknown
And apparently they even like with the strings, they went back and remixed some of this stuff because the quality control department at Motown was like, we want a better mix on stream. And they went to the studio at LA and they were like, we're gonna pay for another, I mean, same session, same record. They just wanted to place it differently.

00:47:33:10 - 00:47:56:03
Unknown
Again, that's what we do here in this podcast. Sometimes I'll say a line and I'll be like, no, let's redo it. Remix that. Really? Yeah. Okay. Good. All right. Maybe we can sit here on this first track forever. But I thought, I don't even know if there's nine tracks on this album. And then, you know, so they started recording the rest of the record, in January.

00:47:56:03 - 00:48:12:11
Unknown
No, no, January is when 71 is when What's Going On came out. Just as a single. It was number one solo single and number two on the pop charts on the hot 100. So that's when Berry Gordy was like, okay, let's make the whole album. I said 30 days. He wanted it done, and they did it March 1st through 10th.

00:48:12:11 - 00:48:32:04
Unknown
It was released on May 21st. That's what we talk about this be, like efficient about their shit back there. Bad back. I was like, get that shit out. And then it became number one on Rolling Stones Greatest 500 albums. So it's like you can't rush greatness 30, 40 years later. Yeah, but it was a huge hit. I mean, for like a year it was on like, you know, huge on the soul charts and pretty big.

00:48:32:04 - 00:48:50:16
Unknown
I don't have all that. Who cares about that? It's a great record. Shout out to the engineers, recording engineer Steve Smith and Kenneth Sands. Boom boom boom. So let's let's go on to the next track. Or should we even mix this in with maybe some of the apex moments? I think we can we can move on to the categories, because we're gonna have a lot of the the tracks in here for the categories.

00:48:50:16 - 00:49:08:02
Unknown
Peter. Okay. So let's jump first to apex moment because that'll get us. Yeah okay. This record, you know, you can hear it, get the vinyl if you can, or even the CD or somehow train Spotify to like, go is supposed to go continuously from each song to the next. It's weird. If you hear these as separate tracks.

00:49:08:04 - 00:49:24:11
Unknown
That's the way Marvin and and the other producers and engineers and musicians, that's how they can see. That's how Marvin conceived it. It's a what they call a concept record, right? So it's conceptual, not only in terms of the content and the music, but famously coming out of what's going on going into the second track, What's Happening brother?

00:49:24:13 - 00:49:40:11
Unknown
It just continues to go. It didn't on the radio, I noticed. Yeah, but it just continues with the same chord, the same five chord, the source chord that be and then it modulates up. So we're going to start, which is weird right on the it's an incredible move here. It's an incredible incredible move. Yeah. And look this is going to when Marvin comes in.

00:49:40:11 - 00:50:01:07
Unknown
This is my apex moment. But full disclosure are you texting our attorneys the the boss looking up another. There's there's a couple of of incredible, like, track to track moves that happen on some classic albums. Yeah. So does it get any better than this one? No. Greatest. The greatest first track. The second track. Transition. Ever. Ever.

00:50:01:19 - 00:50:22:17
Unknown
This. That might be the apex. I'm trying to. Yeah, yeah. So optimistic to in limbo on Radiohead's Kid A is another one that seamlessly transitions. But I think this might be the goat. Yeah, but I mean and this is like, it's such a template for one way of doing it too, which is which is really interesting. But we're going to start right on the second track, What's Happening brother?

00:50:22:17 - 00:50:36:06
Unknown
But my apex moment is when Marvin comes in on this half diminished core because I'm like, what the hell have diminished, first of all. But what? Just listen to what I mean. Everybody knows this. So this is your favorite moment. The whole damn, this is my. I can't say that. You know what? My favorite album of the whole album.

00:50:36:07 - 00:50:53:08
Unknown
My favorite moment. Hum. Yeah, that's what it is. The whole album. It's my apex. No, but this is one of the one of the great ones. If everything's the greatest moment, nothing. Well, is this the greatest album of all time or not, buddy? Come on, we still have an answer that question. But just so when we talk about Apex Moments, it's the specific moment.

00:50:53:08 - 00:51:06:14
Unknown
But it's always. It's like when we talk about an open studio with voicings, there's no such thing as a great voicing. Yes, there is no. There is somewhat. But even so, what is so what? So it's like, what do you. That's funny. You knew I was playing. So it's it's based on the shape of my hands. That's great.

00:51:06:15 - 00:51:23:04
Unknown
It is a great voicing, but not on its own. It's not as great as like what do you play before? What do you play after? It's like what's what's what's your favorite word of all time? What's the greatest word? Dah. Yeah. But you got to put it in a sentence like you know, then I was like, duh, come on dude.

00:51:23:05 - 00:51:45:06
Unknown
You know, then it's more interesting context. Great word. So check out the context on, on what happens. And of course think about what's going on the whole track if you're listening to it from the beginning. But even on this, to get to the entry point of where Marvin comes in on what's happening, brother.

00:51:45:07 - 00:52:02:17
Unknown
James Jamerson, big part of this.

00:52:02:18 - 00:52:05:20
Unknown
It's kind of like, what are we doing?

00:52:05:22 - 00:52:34:01
Unknown
Build more sprinkles. Okay, maybe. But, you know, the greatest, the greatest. And when you listen to contacts who are from and out on on. Yes. Or is. Hell, yeah. Please, everybody, do us a favor. Do yourself a favor. If you don't listen to this whole record, start on the first track and just get to this point like your life will be elevated, because what's going on ends with quite a long interlude.

00:52:34:03 - 00:52:51:18
Unknown
Yeah. On that note, da da da da da da da. It does it. Yeah. The best for a while. Yeah. Business. And then it goes straight into this and the tempo I think pulls back just a little bit of it. But then it just think, you think you got the bells. Chromatic movement. And then that half diminished chord, you're just like can we listen I guess.

00:52:51:20 - 00:53:14:15
Unknown
And the way he sings hey baby, let's just say hello and then, okay, so the way he sings that, the timing of it, the intonation and then James Jamerson counter like we talk about Counter Belly's other melodies, his reaction to that busy f yeah, perfect f so and then keep this one going. Yes of course the first. What's happening brother is actually chill inducing as well.

00:53:14:15 - 00:53:41:13
Unknown
It really is. And then rebels those. That's a little another little melody. They come in little thing. I think that was, as you said, a clock and spiel. Be a list. It could be actually you. Right. And you. Jameson's already gonna check for us on drums, by the way. And it's building, right? It's percolating.

00:53:41:15 - 00:53:48:07
Unknown
Do you mean.

00:53:48:09 - 00:54:33:06
Unknown
Oh. Okay, baby. But, you know, I'm just getting. But you do. I put this on here or is here? When will it be? Oh, when the when people start get together. You know, I don't feel like it, man. I just, like, made you song. People say, hey, what else is new? My friend? This song. Man, when I read the Harmonic Journey.

00:54:33:08 - 00:55:04:11
Unknown
Can't find the word fight. No job, my friend. My name is tied up and say bye for me sake, man, I just don't understand you for this thing. I was hanging from it. Coming up. Yeah. The clock to your favorite player. Right. Trust. Oh, woo! I'm. I still hope you don't want me to go on the second verse.

00:55:04:11 - 00:55:30:18
Unknown
And then we're actually here with the completely genius. Yeah. The whole context of this song is him talking to someone that he, his brother, that hasn't talked to. Yeah. For so long. Yeah. And describing their lives. And you get this feeling of, of the struggles and what they're going through and the issues they're having to deal with and, and ways that they're strategizing to try to, like, at least have some joy, have some, have a life within some chaos.

00:55:30:18 - 00:55:48:00
Unknown
Yeah. It's incredible. And as he's telling the story, this is what was written for his brother Frankie, who was in Vietnam during this time. It's so like we were talking about the beginning. It's so specific lyrically. But like as he's describing like, you know, dealing with these different situations and stuff, the harmony, I mean, like, like the melody jumping around these little details.

00:55:48:05 - 00:56:09:08
Unknown
But the harmonic journey that he goes on and like the tension, the release incredible. And just like the journey, the harmonic journey moves. Oh yeah. And notice to the first two tracks, here are both questions, right? Yeah. What's going on? Yeah. What's happening brother. Yeah. Like this is two two questioning, prodding tracks musically and lyrically. That's great. Let's go.

00:56:09:08 - 00:56:23:22
Unknown
We have less than a minute left. Can we listen to the rest of this track? Oh. James Jamerson, that's a p-bass, right? A precision Fender Precision, I believe, is the model, the famous model that he had. So want to throw that out. I call people names, but yeah, bass, that's what they call bass players nerd out on that.

00:56:23:22 - 00:56:48:17
Unknown
So it's important, you know here's the rapper and tell me friend like this second verse has his variations on verses up to the song. I don't. But you get this here. So the first.

00:56:48:19 - 00:57:22:19
Unknown
I think Jamison's the key. Oh, because it's a number. Oh, I love that. What's happening? What's interesting? Oh he's here. You talk about his syncopation, of his rhythms, the vocal syncopation. What's been straight up and down the line. Oh, right. Just like a large triangle back. Yeah. That's tight. Oh. Ooh. So this is a great transition. I'm going to try to kind of pull it off.

00:57:22:19 - 00:57:34:20
Unknown
It goes right into this. Oh yeah. This is kind of this is flying high. The front like this is like a transitional song.

00:57:34:22 - 00:57:37:03
Unknown
A.

00:57:37:05 - 00:58:02:16
Unknown
Little jazz six. Like. Yeah. That's the strings hanging on that. Nine. On the minor nine chords. Yeah. Hallmark of the all you care about strings on a nine. Right? Without people feeling what's going on, even like rusty. I mean, this was all due respect. Jamerson is walking a jazz bass line. Like, only a great funk bass player can on electric bass.

00:58:02:18 - 00:58:25:03
Unknown
Oh, don't do this. Oh, that was like, I think he had a written outline that was a danger that he's just making his own. And it's borrowed. Yeah. And I mean, this is this is really one of the jazzier cuts, you know what I mean? Like, there's all these transitional I mean, they're transitional. I don't mean like, oh, you're getting to the next thing.

00:58:25:08 - 00:58:48:13
Unknown
It's a concept. It's a story. The whole first the A side and the B side. And I think that that's why I do go towards, you know, ultimate jazz soul album jazz. Like there's a lot of just straight up jazz. Like to me jazz is not about the groove. It's about like the harmonic embellishment. We were debating a little bit like, well, there's not a collective improvization or there's a whole lot of improvization on this record.

00:58:48:18 - 00:59:08:20
Unknown
Vocal improvization. There's some great sax solos too. Now, you know, I feel like, okay, anyway, but it is a great record, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, look, we could just keep listening. The whole record would be good. The next cut. You got any, you got any notes so far? Sorry. That. So we hit my piano notes on this out.

00:59:08:22 - 00:59:30:00
Unknown
No notes. We've already got. Okay, so we haven't got to the desert island track to apex, so we're going to kind of keep moving along here. This is an interesting track. Save the children. This is another one with like an undercurrent of three. Well the melody same world. It's like moving melody. The whole underneath the spoken word thing.

00:59:30:02 - 01:00:12:06
Unknown
Yeah they can. And then the spoken word where he's singing, well we're going to get to it. Heavy jazz harmonies on the down Palatine, your minor down from up top. When the world is singing. When the world won't be singing. Flowers, flowers home you no bells will be ringing. Come down on me. So that's. And that's Jamerson doing a lot of the brother intrigue doing like, the main drum meter thing, but he's doing kind of a double time bond with, three, six, whatever it is.

01:00:12:08 - 01:00:28:21
Unknown
Six, eight. He kind of superimposed on it with Jamerson doing his thing, and again, the similar groove to the Fly Girl string to the last piano line that's happening underneath. They're really defining everything. It's not a it's not just about the harmony. It's not just about the chord changes like these melodies that are happening again, leaning on the nines.

01:00:28:21 - 01:00:50:03
Unknown
Yeah. Of these chords stacking up the third, stacking up the thirds that you hear in almost every track. Yeah, is the hallmark of this. Yeah. And I mean, a great way to get a signature of an album of a sound, right, is to keep these melodies happening throughout. Really. Cool. Yeah. And I mean, it's not I don't want to give this short shrift in terms of like, these are some of the best lyrics on this, this God Save the Children.

01:00:50:05 - 01:01:08:18
Unknown
And there's the call response. It's the church. Marvin, of course, came from a deeply religious background, you know, grew up in a church and had was in and out of the church and a lot of, you know, really shaped his life, his, his spiritual and stuff. But this, kind of some people might be like, oh, did you get that from Kirk Franklin where he talks and then they sing.

01:01:08:21 - 01:01:27:13
Unknown
It's like, no, it comes from the church call response. We call that. But it's a really interesting example. Several places on the record, but especially on this track. Number four, Save the Children. Can we go to the next track? Yeah. God is love. This almost made my desert island track. It could have very easily.

01:01:27:15 - 01:02:09:18
Unknown
Move about. You. You start on the five plus again and talk about my my the whole about my. Not just my preaching. Jesus is my friend. He made this world for us to live in. And gave us everything. This is another one of my babies. Moment four. And oh yeah, so much. And I love his rhythm on this is we give each of like, oh yeah, don't go and get that the next time I come up on the long course.

01:02:09:18 - 01:02:36:17
Unknown
God is my friend. Jesus is my friend. He kind of sneaks in the on whether or not you know, you and half of them all. I've spoken to the four and oh, you guys. And the way that he does these two lines here is we give each other love. Oh, yeah, I'm your mom. I'm sure you love your mom at work.

01:02:36:22 - 01:02:58:06
Unknown
You love your sister. I love it that the lyrics are so like, he's got such an interesting, like, sophistication and innocence and vulnerability, as you said. Like there's a certain level of innocence that that really connects, I think, with humanity. Why are you so popular? Perhaps. But like with his, like, like the lyrics, love your mother. She bore you.

01:02:58:06 - 01:03:17:11
Unknown
I mean, it's like, who could get away with, say, that's very simple. Like, it's very simple. It's very like universal, direct, authentic human. Right? Yeah, yeah. Concepts. You know what I mean? It's just love your mother. She bore you. It says like, sometimes artists might get in their head and overthink some of this stuff. Yeah, it's just like.

01:03:17:11 - 01:03:37:07
Unknown
It's like, let's just talk about what's important in a very genuine way. Yeah. No one better. And then layer that in with a very sophisticated musicality, like duple like thing, the rhythm. So harmonies, easy to say. All those be simple. But as we know, being simple takes a lot of sophistication to do it at this level. Exactly. Okay.

01:03:37:07 - 01:03:59:08
Unknown
Now we're coming up to track number six, and this, I believe, is your desert island track. You want to kind of intro this or talk about I would like to listen to this. Really just mercy. Mercy me. Okay. This one I've got a lot of stuff on time that put it. Oh, another song. Again, all these themes moving up half-staff again.

01:03:59:10 - 01:04:29:00
Unknown
What a great way to get to the next one. Whoa. My favorite vocal performance. Yeah. All things in one. They used to be, when I'm on guitar on this track that we've heard so boys in this two guitar blue from the whole song that you see. Whoa. Person missing me. Is that part of his voice is so beautiful.

01:04:29:00 - 01:05:10:09
Unknown
Things. And what they used to, you know what? Oh, I wasted it on the oceans. Blue 106 fish for me. Oh, oh, mercy, mercy me. You're all facing one. Page 512. How does this not sound dated? On the ground, in the sky and was in the five I. Sometimes I sing this I believe it's a bongo. Just with all that Motown reaper.

01:05:10:11 - 01:05:29:04
Unknown
And it all sounds like a radar Pegasus. I wonder if that's the, Oh, baby drum box again. How how much I think it is promising. I just can't use them because the bongos up on the cover for the.

01:05:29:06 - 01:05:50:22
Unknown
Strings. That's. Wow. Oh my gosh. Oh my God, I be you know I don't know. You know. Oh.

01:05:51:00 - 01:05:56:22
Unknown
Wild bill more. Yeah. We see what.

01:05:57:00 - 01:06:03:12
Unknown
It.

01:06:03:14 - 01:06:11:03
Unknown
Oh, Marvin. Back to the theme.

01:06:11:05 - 01:06:14:14
Unknown
Line keeps coming back.

01:06:14:16 - 01:06:30:13
Unknown
And then this transition, one of the most, like, crazy kind of. And with the sax. Don't eat up. Strings are high. Harmonics.

01:06:30:15 - 01:06:41:11
Unknown
I might have hit that snare every time. All the woodwinds. I know that I've got those. At the end here.

01:06:41:13 - 01:06:47:09
Unknown
Oh, rubato.

01:06:47:11 - 01:07:17:22
Unknown
Oh, weird. A great greatest use of a operatic soprano in pop music history. Maybe so. Great. Okay, so what do you want to hear first on this? And what do you got? Okay, let's do you talking about the percussion. Maybe we can hear it on here.

01:07:18:00 - 01:07:35:18
Unknown
It sounds like a either a woodblock or a cowboy, I think a woodblock. Yeah, but no, it's on the track. It's going through some crazy river. Yeah. That might be Celeste. We keep saying bells, but.

01:07:36:07 - 01:07:47:12
Unknown
Yeah, it might be. All right, so that's that. It's a very aggressive. Yes, it is, but we've got, two guitars on here. Check it out. This is guitar one.

01:07:47:13 - 01:07:57:05
Unknown
Oh, that's that's also what's happening on Inner City Blues, I think. Yeah.

01:07:57:07 - 01:08:14:05
Unknown
I'm such a sucker for a big open guitar. Small man. It's so great laying down the bed. It's like a pad on a synth or something. Yeah. And then you hear it like this. You're like a guitar. She's like, wow, I could do that. But you can't. And these are called, like, what kind of voices you call a guitar?

01:08:14:07 - 01:08:39:16
Unknown
Simple, right? I'd be relative, I don't know. So that's my little contrast track, right? Rhythm guitar. Dry as a bone. Oh. I.

01:08:39:18 - 01:08:53:03
Unknown
Yeah, it sounds a lot to me. I don't that I think that rhythm guitar more than anything on here, like like you can kind of hear were buried it like you can hear it like it could have just been Marvin it here, but it wouldn't have been as good. But it would have been really good. Now here's the winds.

01:08:53:03 - 01:09:08:14
Unknown
There's some weird stuff in the winds that we heard. I'm heard some saxophone, oboe, bassoon stuff.

01:09:08:16 - 01:09:23:19
Unknown
Stacked thirds in the same range as that guitar with the opening. Yeah. Yeah. Just some trumpets that. Flute.

01:09:35:18 - 01:09:39:13
Unknown
Hum.

01:09:39:15 - 01:09:51:18
Unknown
Two really nice.

01:09:51:20 - 01:10:04:13
Unknown
Words.

01:10:05:00 - 01:10:33:03
Unknown
It's such fun stuff, man. Such great stuff, man. Wow, what a stem. And then, of course. Whoa! Oh, mercy! Mercy me. Whoa! What is it? C-sharp? Things. And what then? You d-sharp. No, no, I think it's the, the blues guys. Go on. And then there's the wind. That blows a lot. Even on this major. Whoa!

01:10:33:03 - 01:10:54:20
Unknown
Mercy, mercy. Yeah, that e to d-sharp couldn't be a better, two note range in a human's voice. No, no, that is phrasing. The way the displacement motions add up on, seas. Fish full of mercury. I mean, that's what we were talking about. Fish full of mercy. He's not like you. People were doing some crazy shit with AI.

01:10:54:20 - 01:11:18:23
Unknown
Can we get Marvin Gaye? Read the book to us, please? You know what I mean. Come on. Read the newspaper to be something. Oh, it's so great. Some useful of it. And then I think we'll really post the arrangement side of this. You know, the strings on this are just. Let's check it out.

01:11:19:01 - 01:11:25:22
Unknown
Sing a line down.

01:11:26:18 - 01:11:35:18
Unknown
That was that. Well.

01:11:35:20 - 01:11:53:16
Unknown
Tie. Man. That's high. That's good. Is that G-sharp? Yeah. No, don't write that. If you if you don't have the right players.

01:11:53:18 - 01:12:17:13
Unknown
Yeah, that's a. That's some high level. I'm in a professional. Yeah. Major city orchestra. I'm, I'm in a male voice baby kind of thing. And nicely recorded at the studio. They had a bigger studio, Hitsville too. It had another name to it. They recorded there. They nailed the engineer on there. What a sound too. Again. Five. Four. 431.

01:12:17:19 - 01:12:39:05
Unknown
Sounds like a full. Sounds like a massive 26 string section. Yeah. So we mentioned Gordon Staples, the concertmaster on this fun little side note. He did so many Motown sessions that they gave him his own record in the same year. 19 well, 1970 low record. I don't know if you've ever heard this before. It's called Strung Out, a great title for a string Motown record.

01:12:39:05 - 01:13:02:14
Unknown
You're like, where could this go wrong? But it's a pun title. It's got two puns. The band, the group, they call it Gordon Staples and the string thing doing Strung Out, strung Out. Yeah, it sounds like an Edgar Meyer Yo-Yo Ma folk prop, you know, Bela Fleck product project.

01:13:02:16 - 01:13:15:23
Unknown
I like that, that's Motown. That's a Motown strings record. This is all good. You said it's okay. You're okay with that?

01:13:16:01 - 01:13:42:03
Unknown
You whatever developing, Scooby, how do you devil do me? How about. Okay. You okay? Let you know what we call that when Starsky and Starsky and Hutch slow speed chase with Marvin coming in to do dap, I know. Right? It's such a cool thing. That's sure. Shout out Motown. Yeah, shout out Gordon Staples in the string thing.

01:13:42:05 - 01:13:58:03
Unknown
All right, so then we've got we're going to move. Can we move on to I hate to even do this. But it's kind of. Well, who has this as their. Oh, I've got it as my Desert Island track. The final track on this record. Yeah. This is why this may be like we talk about perfect. We don't talk about perfect record.

01:13:58:03 - 01:14:12:06
Unknown
Is there a perfect record? We don't know. But if this is one, this is like when you're maintaining your transitioning. Yeah, there's a concept and then you get to the end. And it's not like a throwaway track. It might be the strongest track. So there is a concept and we've had some listeners put it in the, in the, in some of our comments.

01:14:12:06 - 01:14:30:02
Unknown
Thank you for commenting. Yeah, right. But there's no such thing as like a perfect for everyone record. But did the artist achieve what they set out to do with their album? Yeah. And in that way, is it perfect? Yeah, I think this is one of those cases. Yes. Where Marvin Gaye obviously had a vision and like, totally nailed it.

01:14:30:02 - 01:14:50:16
Unknown
Yeah. He wanted to tell us what's going on and he nailed it. He did he crush it? Yeah. Yeah. And it is a political record. It is a love record. It is a religious record or spiritual record. You could say it's all these things for sure. But I think ending on the iconic inner city blues and like the message on this, is super interesting.

01:14:50:16 - 01:15:10:16
Unknown
So I have this is my desert island track. You also have the very beginning, the intro as your apex moment. This is my apex moment, just the first. Little of the first notes, I think, are some of the great notes of the music or notes. Or is it like everything we're going to say? They're musical notes. Yeah. And they are perfect and we're going to break it down, I think.

01:15:10:16 - 01:15:37:09
Unknown
But I mean, what can we do? Let's check it out. Inner city blues make me want to holler. All right, I ain't. It's just it's not. You can. It's great. It's the greatest.

01:15:37:11 - 01:15:42:03
Unknown
Oh.

01:15:42:05 - 01:16:23:20
Unknown
I think that's an open guitar again. I love that, I love that I need to learn from the. The way each element is introduced. Spend it all. By the time you get here, you're like, I'm. It's money. Oh, we make it for we see you make it. Oh, then the one, the whole of the way. This just major third made me go to Harlem.

01:16:23:20 - 01:16:47:17
Unknown
When I do my. Listen to this. Everything I think you know. No, baby. Say oh, no, no. Inflation. Second verse. No chance to increase my.

01:16:47:18 - 01:17:23:21
Unknown
Bills. My love, my. Should never have to die. Oh, make my heart. When I do my mind. Yeah, me all the way. They do my mind. Oh. Check out the bass. This is Bob Babbitt, famously not James Chambers. And like a lot of people think, oh, Judy, that's Bobby Hall of the percussion, too, right? On the bongos I think so, yeah.

01:17:23:23 - 01:18:03:13
Unknown
The variation on the bassline is way more than you would think if you check it out. With another Marvin improv, what do you do on the up to the major third on that bass? That Jesus left there? So first breaks and setbacks. Setbacks. Natural. I love the drums here, too. Just all symbols. No, I have my tortoise.

01:18:03:15 - 01:18:47:19
Unknown
Oh, maybe my heart, I grow up. Oh. My hands. Oh, yeah. And maybe. What a heart and throw up of my hand. But the purpose is increase. Trigger happy. Trigger happy. Trigger happy. Listen is great. God knows when we're here. Oh, I think I know. That Dizzy Gillespie. Bebop, scat. I'm not, not good.

01:18:47:21 - 01:19:07:13
Unknown
At that. Na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. I'm a genius, man. Yeah. And then one of the great moments. This should be my apex. My.

01:19:07:15 - 01:19:22:00
Unknown
There's such a, like, drone. Like a cat, you know, it's just like. I mean, so atmosphere at this track, but.

01:19:22:02 - 01:19:24:04
Unknown
I.

01:19:24:06 - 01:19:37:09
Unknown
Mean, I'm a big fan when drummers like flute with big salmon. Drummers use the kid.

01:19:37:11 - 01:20:02:20
Unknown
I'm saving. And there's like half step below the five. Bars above. No. Go ahead. I mean, the ending, the last minute is like, such a different kind of thing. Maybe we'll come back to that at the very end. I was going to say the way the record adds is, like, stunning. I think I'm such a sucker for when a drummer uses, like, doesn't, doesn't have to use the whole kit.

01:20:02:20 - 01:20:19:06
Unknown
All the on every song that you're playing, whether it's in a set or whether it's on an album, like just taking cymbals out. Ringo Starr did this all the time, right? Yes. Like no cymbals, just drums. I think it's so effective because you're sort of like default is like, okay, the high hats going to do this, and then the ride's going to do that.

01:20:19:06 - 01:20:35:03
Unknown
But like you don't need it all the time. Like it's like everything is a color. It's the same. I mean, we do the same thing with piano sometimes we forget to use the extremities of the piano. Yeah. Or different colors that we have available to us. And it's always a great reminder that there's more colors available on your instrument than you're probably employing.

01:20:35:03 - 01:20:50:08
Unknown
Yes, in any given situation. And oftentimes that means taking stuff away. Yeah. Addition by subtraction. Like, what are you going to decide to play? Well, I wonder if that isn't just the drum box. If it isn't even like sound like it's it's a kick in the snare. But I could be wrong. Yeah, but I mean, it wasn't real.

01:20:50:08 - 01:21:07:03
Unknown
You. I mean, it just. I couldn't imagine a drummer not hitting something at some point, you know, it's almost like. But it's again, like, this is a big part of I think they're ranging on here. There's the string arranging which we've broken down, and it's on a bunch of these tracks, which is just stunning. The way it's played, the way it's layered in.

01:21:07:05 - 01:21:22:23
Unknown
There's the rhythm tracks, there's the like, all this stuff is arranged. It is arranged, you know, like how the different guitars, the I mean, yeah, man, this might be a I, it's funny, I didn't come into this thinking it's like this the perfect record he sold you though. But I think from beginning, from top to bottom, this is a perfect record.

01:21:22:23 - 01:21:38:12
Unknown
I'm putting it out there, and the way that it ends is like, you know, we're gonna listen to that on the way out. So, let's get to some categories. We've already done the desert island tracks, right? Inner City Blues is your desert island track. Mercy, mercy me is my desert island track. We already done, both of our apex moments.

01:21:38:12 - 01:21:53:23
Unknown
Yours was, Marvin entry on what's Happening, brother, which is incredible. And mine is the intro. Yeah, up until the verse, it's really all of inner city blues. But I think that intro is so special. What do you got for bass? Oh, I just want to say shout out Bob Babbitt, who played the bass line and I believe wrote it or came up with it.

01:21:54:02 - 01:22:13:14
Unknown
It might have been a thing of Marvin singing who knows? Yeah, right. People do dunking, but they like talking about details. They came back because he was playing all that stuff up. Hype and cool. Do they call? Yeah. Like they came back. I don't know if it was Marvin or I can't remember what the story is. I think was Marvin was like, I want to hear that lower that E-flat an octave lower two.

01:22:13:14 - 01:22:32:21
Unknown
So they came in and layered that down low as well. They say actually two bass tracks on here, and you've got here on the bongos. This is a funk, sister. Yes. Not a funk, brother. Right. We have the Funk Brothers. We have, I don't know how many female Funk Brothers there were, but Bobby Hall shout out to Bobby Hall for out of Detroit on the bongos.

01:22:33:04 - 01:22:51:07
Unknown
Very accomplished percussionist on a number of Motown sessions and different things. Bongos on the inner city blues. So some categories. Peter. So we've got, our bespoke Spotify playlist titled what do you got on there? I got Soul Jazz for the Wind Soldiers for the I never know, is it soul jazz or jazz? Soul. Which is better?

01:22:51:07 - 01:23:13:14
Unknown
Soul jazz? This is soul jazz or jazz? Jazzy soul, I like that, yeah. What you got, Adam? I've got a couple. I've got soul of society. Soul of society. Okay, not my best work, but, But but you've hedged there. You got a secondary. I've got cinematic soul. Because I feel like this whole album, very cinematic with the themes running through it, it actually feels like 70s cinema of this time.

01:23:13:14 - 01:23:32:04
Unknown
Yeah, it was like, on the cover to go with that. It was gritty. It's it's got a real message. It's not like just, spoon fed pop music. Well, we're going to get to that in accouterments. Oh, sorry. No, but it's like, you're right. Cinematic. Like he could be a detective. A Detroit detective show on ABC yet.

01:23:32:04 - 01:23:49:19
Unknown
You know what I mean? It's an amazing like. I mean Marvin Gaye, by the way. Just in general, one of the most stylish people to ever live. One of the most attractive. Are we allowed to say that? A very attractive gentleman. What? Yeah, obviously. Produced by the sun is hot. Yeah. And so is Marvin Gaye. No.

01:23:50:03 - 01:24:06:17
Unknown
So up next, what other albums pair with this? I have this is I've been like, what a great one, man. A lot of Dorothy Ashby. So yeah, one of our Detroiters. Well, Detroit, one of our dear listeners, when we did our songs in the Key of Life, which you might have to read song in the Key of Life for our new season here.

01:24:06:17 - 01:24:26:00
Unknown
Yeah, but we did songs in the Key of Life, and we were talking about, if it's magic. Yeah. And I was like, I wonder, I didn't have the personnel up. And I was like, I forget who's playing harp. And one of our listeners said, oh, surely you guys are like 30 of our dear listeners. Yeah, surely you know about Dorothy Ashby, which I know the name, but I actually, you know, we all have blind spots, never really checked out her music.

01:24:26:06 - 01:24:44:02
Unknown
And I've been listening to nothing but Dorothy Ashby all year and I just Dorothy's Harp, which came out in 1969, a couple of years before this album. What's going on? But listen to this. This is by the time I get to Phoenix, I.

01:24:44:04 - 01:24:50:03
Unknown
Do you like Sun Sports? Oh my God.

01:24:50:05 - 01:25:00:09
Unknown
It's real. Man. We ought to do a Dorothy Ashby. Oh, we got a whole record she made in the late 60s. So good.

01:25:00:11 - 01:25:22:16
Unknown
So again, strung out strings playing behind her. Yeah. Oh kill it. Man, oh, man. So are the Ashby for the win. Dorothy Ashby playing harp on Stevie Wonder's If It's Magic from songs in the Key of Life, also had these three albums in a row in the late 60s. These like soul jazz, real in this genre that you're talking about and just incredible music.

01:25:22:16 - 01:25:42:13
Unknown
Yeah, incredible. Incredible music. We should do a whole run bed short. Shout out Detroit, Michigan. Oh, you know what I mean. Think about all these musicians that are either from there or came there and did this. I mean, Motown records, obviously are a huge part of that. But talk about something in the water, something in the music education system during that time, I'm sure.

01:25:43:03 - 01:26:08:21
Unknown
Because we're talking about some amazing, you know, amazing, like generational artists, of course, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye. But also just when we talk about support musicians, string players, you know, Dorothy Ashby, you know, who was it? Eddie Bongo Brown, James Jamerson. It's very easy to think of these people as support, like, we're talking about some of the greatest artists on their instruments of all time outside innovative, outsized music.

01:26:08:21 - 01:26:26:04
Unknown
The Funk Brothers. Yeah, no Detroit punching above its weight for how big of a city it is with how many great musicians and albums came out of there. Yeah. So for you're up next, you put Stevie Wonder's interview. I mean, that's kind of an obviously. And I think this is a perfect pairing. Yeah. Inner city blues writer living for the city.

01:26:26:04 - 01:26:47:09
Unknown
Yeah, we go just perfectly very influential on each other. A voice oh it's hard. Hey, don't worry, folks, we're gonna get to inventions. It's on the land bed talking book. A lot of people were like, that's all right, but. But I'm coming. Y'all is coming. Yeah. This a little foreshadowing for all of you. All right, what about quibble bits?

01:26:47:09 - 01:27:01:04
Unknown
What do you got? I have none except on Spotify. Making it so hard and making it not default that you seamlessly transition just like on the LP. Why can't we get there? Maybe. Maybe my settings are right. I got it, but there's still like a little bit of a break. I want to be able to hear this in a way where I have none.

01:27:01:04 - 01:27:23:08
Unknown
I have no limits on this at all. Snap arbiter okay, being not snobby and being extremely snob, man, I have to go with my my often quoted five on this anemometer because it's totally no, it's not not snobby, but it's not extremely snobby. Okay. Like how could okay, what do you have? And then please explain, sir, I have to because it's on Rolling Stones Top 500 album.

01:27:23:08 - 01:27:39:21
Unknown
It's number one. Number one. But does that's got to be not. So why would it not be one then? It could be one but because. But it's on Linda going to like love this. No not. And is Ethan Iverson going to he probably okay. So it really should be more of an 8 or 9 then. No no no no it's not snobby though.

01:27:39:21 - 01:27:56:08
Unknown
It's very it's very commercially successful Peter. It's one of the best selling albums of all time. That's not what this in the box, but a measures commercial appeal. It does. If something is something we said on window, Ethan Iverson now we say, is something snobby or is it not snobby? Is it? Is it so I'm Indian, Ethan Iverson are gone.

01:27:56:08 - 01:28:13:09
Unknown
We're taking those out of the for months they've been gone. I haven't mentioned either of them. You keep bringing them up. So it's just a this anemometer measures record sale is it. No no, no. It's like the RIAA record industry of America. America is it's you know what snobby means? Yes. Is it snobby? Yeah. I think this is a very snobby record.

01:28:13:09 - 01:28:27:08
Unknown
Okay. I consider myself a music, and I love this record because I'm confused. Because I do think on Linda Would like it. We might have to scrap the song about her. Is it better than Kind of Blue? You go first. Yes it is. You know what? Yes it is, yeah it is. It is better than kind of. Wow.

01:28:27:11 - 01:28:42:07
Unknown
You know what? I had a maybe and you've been getting on me about that. But after sitting here experiencing with you and with the dear listeners and viewers, I got it. I think it is, man, if we count, because I don't know. That is a perfect album and I don't know if this is, but I but I think, oh, look, you get you're getting worried.

01:28:42:12 - 01:28:57:15
Unknown
He's thinking about the bottle. You know what? I think this is a perfect record because I have no quibble. Yeah. He he nailed what he was going. He nailed it. He nailed it. And Miles nailed kind of blew too. I think it's like, hey, this is apples and oranges for real. But if if is it better than Kobe is really about which one do I prefer?

01:28:57:15 - 01:29:13:13
Unknown
I prefer this to Kobe. Okay. I'm not sure. Yeah. Could be got title. So first of all, if we just take the title of the album. What's going on? That's so good. Incredible title. Yeah. Incredible title for what it's saying. If we take the cover, it's amazing. If we take the back cover. Look at that, folks. Oh.

01:29:13:13 - 01:29:32:09
Unknown
So good. Look at that. That. Look at that guy. Look, that's such man. The graphic design, the photography on this. You got chromatic tie shirt thing going on. Details. Black patent leather trench coat collar up and there's like snow in it. You know what that that that jacket would cost in a hipster thrift store today. It would be $10,000, not 10,000.

01:29:32:11 - 01:29:53:17
Unknown
Well, that specific jacket, that's what should be in the suit union. But, here's like the family, this is called family Photo album. And look at all those people. It gives you the vibe of what he's going for here, what's going on? And then all the lyrics printed. I miss the days when all the lyrics were printed. So great in your pop and all the every musician, every musician is listed.

01:29:54:15 - 01:30:12:12
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, this is great. And I, you know, there's some details on this. Look at this hair. Is that like snow? Yeah, it was like rain. Snow or something, maybe. And this font, I call it the Charlie Brown Christmas font. Whatever you call that. Oh, that's some late 60s, early 70s like. Yeah. Perfect Renaissance fair font.

01:30:12:12 - 01:30:30:12
Unknown
Yeah. It's a little bit, a little bit weird because it goes to an it. But I mean, it's perfect for this record. It's perfect. The whole thing. Produced by Marvin Gaye this like jungle gym or something. This the graphic design. This is a lot of intentionality put to this. Yeah. The color there and this. Yeah. Learned. It looks awesome.

01:30:30:12 - 01:30:45:20
Unknown
I gotta tell you, it does what it's supposed to do. Is it. It evokes what it makes you want to like, hold it while you're listening to this record. Yeah. I also have ten out of ten. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this isn't a perfect album. And perfect album cover for a Cookie Monster. What is? Yeah. Okay. So please leave us a comment.

01:30:45:20 - 01:31:04:15
Unknown
So we do like to read your comments. Peter, this one is from YouTube. And, this is, I believe, from our Stevie Wonder episode from Talking Book this. It's been listening every week for the last couple of months, every since I've downloaded at least one album based on what I've heard. Yeah. Thank you for this program. And that is from Alfonso.

01:31:05:09 - 01:31:21:01
Unknown
Alfonso Mena 7248. Thank you. Alfonso and I don't give out all his info. If it's for you, give his phone number, social security number. It's okay. Thank you for that. And please leave us a rating or review wherever you get your podcast. You can also leave us a comment on Spotify. We will read your Spotify comments.

01:31:21:02 - 01:31:32:08
Unknown
I, like you, just have to show me how to find those. I'm. Peter doesn't believe it's possible, but it is possible. Okay. And also, on YouTube, leave us a comment. How about a seven star review? Could we ever get back to that? Remember we used to ask for seven star reviews? You put that in the comments on YouTube.

01:31:32:08 - 01:31:59:13
Unknown
If you guys are on seven stars, seven stars put seven, which is impossible by the way. It only goes up to five that we to seven. Don't discard that seven stars. We play something fun going out? Sure. What you want to?

01:31:59:15 - 01:35:15:01
Unknown
Do.

01:35:15:03 - 01:36:45:22
Unknown
Oh.