00:00:00:01 - 00:00:28:05
Unknown
What's up? Adam? It's up to Martin. How are you feeling today? Oh, I'm feeling great. No, I'm feeling great. No, I'm. No, I'm feeling great because it's talking book. Stevie Wonder day on the pod. That is an all time are right there. And you know, that means we got to do, Oh, yeah. Good call. Exactly. But, Peter, I will say, you know, we are jazz pianist.

00:00:28:05 - 00:00:46:09
Unknown
Well, I'm in xenial, but, that means we have to lop off the eighth bit of this, right? What does that even mean? Cut off the eighth beat altogether. What? Help me out, Caleb, with this. New,

00:00:46:11 - 00:01:22:15
Unknown
How I little this. Yeah. That's on Brad. All right, here we go.

00:01:22:17 - 00:01:35:12
Unknown
Put it up.

00:01:35:14 - 00:03:20:09
Unknown
Now.

00:03:20:11 - 00:03:33:19
Unknown
What the.

00:03:33:21 - 00:03:53:04
Unknown
I'm Adam, and I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the ultimate podcast, Music explored. Explored, brought to you today by Open Studio. Go to Open studio jazz.com for o. Your jazz lesson needs our. Peter. It's a good day. Oh, it's a good day. Oh, we got it. We got we got to start off right here. Oh yeah I am very cold because it's a chilly morning here.

00:03:53:04 - 00:04:17:04
Unknown
But it's heating up really quickly because I'm, I'm getting so excited. My blood is pumping my blood. My blood. I'm underlining the name of the album. That's how important it is. Oh, it's so good. So today, one of the greatest albums of all time. Yes. Stevie Wonder's first masterpiece, I think. Yeah, talking book. I put talking book on par for me with songs in the Key of Life.

00:04:17:04 - 00:04:37:10
Unknown
I know not everybody feels that way. Yeah, but to me this one is as good and maybe even a little bit tighter and better. Well, it's it's one it's one album instead of two albums. So there's that literally no filler on this one. And not that there's filler on songs in the Key of Life. There's not. But this one is just such an incredible experience start to finish.

00:04:37:10 - 00:04:57:18
Unknown
Yeah, it really is. It's amazing record. And it's also, I mean music of my mind. Talking book innovations for filling this first finale, the classic period, and then of course, going into songs of the Key Life, which is a little bit the next period. You know, you could we could quibble back and forth on that. But I think that these records, I mean, there's a lot of overlap in terms of when they were recorded, how they were recorded.

00:04:57:20 - 00:05:18:13
Unknown
But yeah, Talking Book is a masterpiece. It's on that like kind of, I think, ridiculous. Rolling stones 500 Greatest Albums because it's listed at like, you know, 185 or something like that. Like, I don't think there's 184 better records of this. That's impossible. Exactly. And I know they have I think they have songs in the Key of Life way up there, maybe even in the top ten, but they should also be in the top.

00:05:18:13 - 00:05:39:12
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, like this year in anything the Rolling Stones ever made. Honestly. Yeah. And this is also just a super interesting record and a little bit of a time capsule, a little bit of a peek into a very specific part of Stevie Wonder's career right after he turned 21, right when he got full artistic control over his his musical output.

00:05:39:12 - 00:05:58:05
Unknown
This is not like, oh, his fourth or fifth record. This is his 15th album, taken 15th. Come on. Yeah, yeah, actually might be 16. How old was he? Was his 15th studio album. He even had some live albums. Oh my God, he was 21. So 21. This is his 15th album. Yeah yeah yeah. God. So he had a lot of a meltdown really out of working and.

00:05:58:08 - 00:06:22:20
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, he had a little bit of experience, but he also did some amazing things in terms of pretty much single handedly it was his vision. And then he put together a team, to negotiate with Motown pretty much. What at the time was the best, artist record contract ever? I think before that, Ray Charles was sort of notorious for having the best in terms of like, owning masters higher royalty rates than normal.

00:06:22:20 - 00:06:39:12
Unknown
So like, he was able to negotiate. He deserves all of it. Yeah. And he had some money even going into this through some savvy moves apparently from him and his team. So he was able to kind of just sit and work on music as he was negotiating with Motown to be able to get that better deal. You know what is interesting?

00:06:39:12 - 00:06:59:08
Unknown
Thinking about it back to our Michael Jackson off the Wall album. It's like we think about the people who grew up as kids in the industry. Yeah, like certainly there's like, we think about them as artistically talented because they started working with all these great artist from a younger age, but almost all of them too, are somewhat industry savvy.

00:06:59:11 - 00:07:18:19
Unknown
And you notice that, like, Michael is like buying the Beatles catalog and really like taking control of his career at an early age. Same here with Steve is that's fascinating actually. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think Steve Stevie had a lot of different talents. And in researching this, I was, you know, I was not only reminded because I've heard stories about musicians that I know that have played with them.

00:07:18:19 - 00:07:37:19
Unknown
I've got to be around Stevie Wonder just a little bit. But like, he's very he has all these different talents beyond just music, even within music. And we're going to hear it on this album because he pretty much plays every instrument on this album. There's some great collaborations that come in, but I mean, it's pretty shocking that about 90% of the instruments and vocals on this album are coming from Stevie.

00:07:37:19 - 00:07:55:00
Unknown
I'm just going to put it out here. Stevie, we have all of the instruments here in our studio, so if you ever want to come by and, play on one of the intro jams, let us know. Yeah. So today we're exploring Stevie Wonder's Talking Book from 1972. You remember 1972, Adam? Absolutely. No, no, I actually do remembered fondly I was one.

00:07:55:00 - 00:08:24:09
Unknown
Me too. Man. This ground, I was alive at least. Buddy. I'm maternal. I got this groundbreaking album marks the moment Stevie Wonder gained complete creative control from Motown. At just 21 years old, what many don't realize is that wonder played nearly all the instruments himself keyboards, drums, harmonica, bass, and more. Key bass that is showcasing his extraordinary musicianship beyond his vocals, in particular on a certain instrument called tanto.

00:08:24:10 - 00:08:44:07
Unknown
We'll get into that. Tonto talking book was recorded primarily at Electric Lady Studios, also at a place called Media in New York and then onto the West Coast, which is an incredibly, at the Record Plant in LA, which is a a story more for the coming albums that we won't cover today. The legendary space. The Electric Lady, of course, was built by Jimi Hendrix.

00:08:44:07 - 00:09:08:18
Unknown
I believe he passed away right before Stevie started recording there, and they were kind of looking to bring in other artists and keep the space going. It was a super innovative atmosphere. Freire perfectly matched Steve's experimental vision talking book, brilliant brilliantly balances technical innovation with raw emotion, pioneering synthesizer work alongside soul stirring vocals that span from the tender You're the Sunshine of My Life to the funk masterpiece superstition.

00:09:08:20 - 00:09:23:13
Unknown
Join us as we discover how these songs continue to influence musicians 50 years later, and why Talking Book remains one of the most significant albums in modern history.

00:09:23:14 - 00:09:36:10
Unknown
Yeah. The whole whole tone scale nerd took a little bit later this week. Yeah.

00:09:36:12 - 00:09:58:16
Unknown
You are the sunshine of my life. Not Stevie, but sadly, famously. That's why I'll always be around, but still not Stevie. Well, I don't everything else except the car, the apple. I'm not Stevie and.

00:09:58:18 - 00:10:06:03
Unknown
Forever you stay in my heart.

00:10:06:05 - 00:10:44:12
Unknown
I feel like this is Stevie beginning. I'll listen to it, though. I love you for a million years. Man, Stevie's voice I thought I was on the notes was, You. I find myself, drowning in mountains. Whoa whoa whoa. The sunshine of my life and voice leading. Is that something that I didn't get out of town I love?

00:10:44:14 - 00:11:01:21
Unknown
This is somehow, like, the greatest wedding band ever, ever assembled. What are you talking. Oh, like, really high end. Oh, okay. That's the song I've been playing a lot of weddings. You in this song need to have a little bit of a moment together. No, we're having an. I love the song. You do not love this song. Get to that.

00:11:01:23 - 00:11:32:01
Unknown
And I. Oh, you must. I love the execution of this song. I was so late. Because you came to my rescue with the look good. And I know that this must be me. I could so much love me and say, okay, so. And then we're. And of course, first of all, can I. Can I just mention something here?

00:11:32:01 - 00:11:47:14
Unknown
So a couple of things. So like how much confidence does it take to start your album with you not singing two people sing before you write, sing the verse before you. Such a cool idea. Yeah. And I remember the first time I bought this CD back in the day when I was in high school. I was like, I had the album, buddy.

00:11:47:18 - 00:12:03:12
Unknown
Is that Steve? That's not Stevie. Yeah. And then that moment when he does come in, you're like, oh my God, that's amazing. For some reason, I missed it for a long time. Like back when I was a young in. And, like, I thought it was a duet and I was always like, wow, the female singer, she doesn't.

00:12:03:14 - 00:12:22:15
Unknown
She never really comes back in. It's kind of weird. I just never really thought about it. So those are the background singers, right? Yeah, that's Jim Gilstrap and Lonny Gross, and they're singing Background Man, along with Gloria Barley as well. Can you imagine what a great day in the studio these like Jim. Yeah, you're starting off the album, but what a smart kind of a thing.

00:12:22:16 - 00:12:44:07
Unknown
The interesting thing too, about this, the sessions that produced all this music, they were not recording an album. They well, they were what ended up being several. There's a lot of overlap between this and Music of My mind, and they just like there was one weekend where, and we're going to learn about a couple of guys, Robert Margolin and Malcolm Cecil, who were the co-producers, the inventors of the Tonto synthesizer.

00:12:44:07 - 00:13:01:00
Unknown
And there's a whole story there that's super interesting. But they talked about Steven. One of the first weekends. He recorded 17 tracks complete, you know, so it went well beyond this album. And they had to kind of start tell them, let's why don't you start winnowing it down to an album? And he was also negotiating the contract with Motown, so it wasn't like I'm delivering now.

00:13:01:01 - 00:13:21:15
Unknown
He was just making music. He was just in there tracking and creating stuff, and the way it came together is is pretty stunning. This track is super unique, not only because somebody else is singing at the beginning of it, it's the behind the album, the sound of it by when I said the greatest wedding band ever. Like they're playing the same way you wish a wedding band would play this song, you know, with like, the spirit and the vibe and the balance.

00:13:21:19 - 00:13:41:13
Unknown
Stevie's like Roads playing is par excellence. The drums. The drums are killin. Which is of course, Stevie as well. The only. And then Scott Edwards is playing bass and this is the only electric bass, non Moog bass on this whole album, on this song, on this song. Right. Stevie's playing Moog bass on the record. Everything else, on everything else.

00:13:41:13 - 00:13:54:07
Unknown
This is the only other bass player, so to speak. And it's the only. That's why it's kind of got that different side. And that's why I think it's such a unique and interesting way to start out the album, because the rest of the album is not this track, you know, and we'll talk about later, if that's a quibble or not.

00:13:54:07 - 00:14:09:06
Unknown
I might be changing my mind. Okay. All right. You know, I want to talk a bit about obviously this is the number one hit to pop and, yeah, well, Grammy Award winning too, right? Yeah, yeah. The whole the album, this was a number one hit for for the pop charts. Yeah. Or the hot 100, whatever. Yeah.

00:14:09:07 - 00:14:23:12
Unknown
And also, guess what other chart it was. Number one. What? Easy listening. You know why it was number one on all these things on just those two. Because it's friggin amazing. I don't remember easy listening because we're going to talk about that later. I want to talk about the Stevie as a drummer. Okay. Yeah. Talk about Sievers drummer.

00:14:23:12 - 00:14:40:18
Unknown
So he's playing drums on this whole album. Yeah. From from what I understand and I one time the drummer drummers on here. Yeah I, when I first discovered this album, then I realized it was Stevie playing. I asked did a really good friend of mine who's a really good drummer. I said, man, is Stevie. Like, how do you feel about him as a drummer?

00:14:40:18 - 00:14:58:10
Unknown
How would you listen to him playing the drums? Because I love it, but I don't know. Is it does that bug you that he's not here? And he was like, no, he's like, it's one of my favorite drum performances, this album. He said something I'll never forget. He goes, Stevie is just so fundamentally funky. Yeah. Everything he plays feels incredible.

00:14:58:15 - 00:15:18:13
Unknown
And I think that's like, really? I mean, he's technically a solid drummer. Yeah, but it's just like his sense of groove is so deep and so strong that it just carries whatever, you know, chops that he might not have on the on the kit carries into the sense of feel and groove carries into. And it's by the way, his chops aren't that bad either.

00:15:18:13 - 00:15:33:11
Unknown
It's just a pretty darn good I know. I mean, technically he's probably like a solid B as a drummer, which is, I mean, at the professional level. Yeah, the music could have made a career as a drummer if you want to. Yeah. Oh, easily. Yeah. I mean, conceptually and musically he's a plus plus plus plus, that's the thing.

00:15:33:11 - 00:15:51:14
Unknown
And so if his technique and actually I mean, like if we think about technique on any instrument as being in service to the music, he's an A, you know what I mean? Because he's able to execute everything he wants to do. When we get to superstition, we're going to get into some really, actually pretty high level technical stuff that he does at the drums as well.

00:15:51:15 - 00:16:12:11
Unknown
We've got some isolation there for you. I love it anyway. So that's that's You Are My Sunshine. The album, as we said, is his 15th studio album. He was 21 years old when he started this particular Robert Margulis and Malcolm Cecil with the co-producing producers and engineers. These were the guys behind Tomtom's expanding head band and also behind the classic tanto synthesizer, which wasn't even really a synthesizer.

00:16:12:11 - 00:16:31:12
Unknown
Was that a student short film contest expanding headband? Man, it was a very trippy electronic. I remember my dad talking about this like in the late well, he wasn't telling me in the late 60s because I wasn't conceived yet, but he but it was like a big thing. They were a duo. They'd made electronic, very early electronic music and created this tanto, which is the original New Timbral Orchestra.

00:16:31:12 - 00:16:45:20
Unknown
We'll have a picture of it here. It's so massive, though it took up a whole like section of the Electric Ladyland. They ended up moving it, or it's moved all around because it's too big for us. Now. We have that on our phones. Exactly. I'm sitting in a museum in Calgary. I want to go see. That's amazing. Shout out Canada!

00:16:45:22 - 00:17:08:04
Unknown
But it incorporated like several moves. Like, basically you could have at the time there was just one voice, monophonic synthesizers. Right. And so this thing combined a bunch of different things. They even ran like the clavinet, Stuart, the roads and stuff. It was a whole killing, trippy thing. Tonsils, expanding headband, which apparently one of them came up with that name when they were tripping out on peyote, as you do shout out.

00:17:08:09 - 00:17:30:06
Unknown
And Steve, you do. Thank you. Late 60s, Cultural revolution. But it was a very interesting thing because they had the studio actually, they were the studio called Media in New York City at first and Stevie had heard these instruments on several different albums. They're one the tonsils expanding headband. I forget the name of the record, but they he had heard that record and he sought them out once he got out of his childhood contract, his juvenile contract, whatever they called it.

00:17:30:08 - 00:17:45:21
Unknown
At 21, he's like, okay, I want to do what I've always wanted to do. You know, I'm gonna make hits, mama make hits my way. I actually don't even think he was thinking about making it. He did make hits, but it was like a whole nother thing. And so he was wanting to explore all this stuff. So he came to New York and actually just, like, showed up at their studio.

00:17:46:02 - 00:17:59:12
Unknown
And Malcolm Cecil talks about that. Stevie and when he. Yeah, like somebody is knocking at the door like eight in the morning. Yeah. And Stevie with his guy there and he's like, yeah, I want to meet you. I want to learn about these synths in these sounds. I want to record some stuff. Dave, were you expecting a musical genius here today?

00:17:59:14 - 00:18:14:19
Unknown
No. Well he's here. Yeah. And it wasn't like, even though he hadn't made gotten to the classic period yet. And he was young. Yeah, he was already a star and. No, of course. So he started this relationship with Robert and Malcolm and like they went through this whole period like no contracts. No like, how is this going to be released?

00:18:14:19 - 00:18:33:02
Unknown
He didn't have a contract with Motown. It was very organic. And just like creating music. And they were both super excited. They were both musicians and engineers as well, Malcolm Cecil and Robert Margolin. And there's there's a lot of, like, deep dive you can do on interviews with them talking about this, but it was a it was a really just interesting thing.

00:18:33:04 - 00:18:47:20
Unknown
So, yeah, let's move on now because you are the sunshine of my life. That's a particular kind of sound. Next up on this album. And look, I always think, great albums and Stevie is such a master of this. Like if you listen to them in order, we're going to try to hit I don't know if we've ever done this every track on this.

00:18:47:20 - 00:19:03:18
Unknown
I know where you're going with this, so can I just set what I think you're about to say? Yes. So we start with very clean, incredibly sharp sound of you are the sunshine of my life and somebody else beside Stevie Wonder. Pop song Keep Key of B, which is, by the way, just a very like bright but a little bit nostalgic key.

00:19:03:18 - 00:19:25:02
Unknown
Yeah. Goes straight into maybe your babe, maybe, your baby, which is the easiest, funkiest track on the album. Maybe even more so than Super. Yeah, just like an incredible change up pitch. Yeah. From like this, like beauty groove in easy listening. Yeah. Like maybe, maybe is not easy listening. No no no. And maybe your baby smells funny.

00:19:25:02 - 00:19:46:18
Unknown
It smells funny. And also the lyrics on this are kind of the like there's all this sort of like, very romantic, very optimistic and a little bit of political. This is sort of the beginnings of Stevie getting to brother. Very astute political. I mean, Steve, when we talk about him being multi-talented, it's very easy to get caught up in like, yes, because you can play keyboard, you can play drums, you could sing, he could do accents and stuff.

00:19:46:23 - 00:20:09:04
Unknown
But he's also super talented as a spokesman, as a communicator, even when he's not doing it with the music, a lyricist, a composer. I mean, it's it's kind of stunning, but this is one where it's a little bit sharp edged in terms of relationship between man and woman. Just the vibe, the way this starts. I mean, this couldn't be any more polar opposite to what we just heard.

00:20:09:06 - 00:20:27:16
Unknown
And. Yeah. The moon base is in this album. Yeah. It really makes an album. And the way, the way he would control the point of mental with the dial. I mean.

00:20:27:18 - 00:20:57:12
Unknown
I see down some kind of love. They got my baby and let me see. I'm like. So we talked so much about the music and some of the technical things. Yeah, what I'm trying, but what we haven't talked about quite yet, but is the most important factor is this is all happening underneath, I think, unquestionable be the greatest pop vocalist in the history of the music.

00:20:57:12 - 00:21:18:03
Unknown
When we were just setting up here listening to music, our, our, our producer Andy was like greatest pop vocalist ever. I was like, I think he must be just chasing the title just because, like, every note he feels is just incredible. Has this incredible weight behind it. Yeah. Just the first line of maybe your baby's unbelievable. Yeah, well, when we're talking about technical abilities as a drummer, I'll tell you one thing.

00:21:18:03 - 00:21:37:15
Unknown
Technical abilities as a vocalist are just a plus plus plus plus, plus off the charts. But also like being able to turn the concert piece of phrasing. I mean, beyond just the basics of, like, sound and intonation and dynamics and all that control. Of course he's got that, but also being able to turn the way these I mean, he's he's got to be the most imitated.

00:21:37:16 - 00:21:56:13
Unknown
Oh vocalist by male in every vocalist. Right. 100%. Yeah. But this stuff and look he's playing everything on here until you hear the guitar, which is Ray Parker Jr. Hey, Ghostbuster. Are you going to call me Parker? Yeah. And that Moog bass. I know we're listening to this again. Okay. I'm. Yeah, I'm. I'm a fan. Five. Oh, we got ten tracks.

00:21:56:13 - 00:22:23:19
Unknown
Get you, buddy. Okay, baby. I wanted to jump ahead to, like, when the guitar come on when I got on. But the groove is being driven not by the drums. It's by the bass and the clap and the dynamics I. I could ever do me any good. Oh, Parker's already in there. My best friend. I feel like I'm slipping.

00:22:23:21 - 00:22:59:23
Unknown
There's a little Michael Jackson that I'm slipping deeper into my myself. Oh, those days, I get it. This stuff is scaring me to death. Here we go. Come to baby. A baby done made that. Stevie on all the background playing on the mic. And me wearing, saying he's so free on the drums that he just like, like you would think that happy girl.

00:23:00:01 - 00:23:17:09
Unknown
Oh, yeah. It's so hard to sit here. I know it makes you want to move. Oh, oh. And they've got that high. Has like is loud af.

00:23:17:11 - 00:23:23:18
Unknown
In some way.

00:23:23:19 - 00:23:38:02
Unknown
So it's just, you know, incredible stuff. And I would say too it kind of goes crazy work. Yeah. Yeah. I mean we just sit here and do that track for the rest of that. Five. Okay. But you know what actually I do, I do I gotta jump to the end though because it really well hold on to save it.

00:23:38:04 - 00:23:56:01
Unknown
Save like I'm like oh is that everything okay. Cool. Okay. So that's the second track move base clapping it a bunch of clapping. That's I know there's up to four layer clarinets along with the lay on on superstition. I heard them talking about that. And it sounds like a similar number on this as well. Well, I got chills from that one, man.

00:23:56:04 - 00:24:15:10
Unknown
It's. You know what? I think the craziest thing about it is, like, the time is fluctuating like, like in a beautiful human way. Yeah, that's kind of stunning. The groove is so intense, yet he's never just, like, back beating on the top that, like, it's just like go. Oh yeah, I know. Oh. And then they've got like the engineering and the production on this.

00:24:15:13 - 00:24:27:16
Unknown
The three of them really worked together. It was clapping that sound amazing. I don't know how many are on that track. It's got to be at least three, right. Sounds like it sounds like I know that was up to four. Just like layered perfectly. And think about it, it's like the hardest instrument to ever layer. I don't even know how you do it.

00:24:27:16 - 00:24:41:19
Unknown
I know how they did that. Yeah. For those who don't know a clavinet, it's a it's a keyboard instrument that has strings. It's like a, it was similar to like a harpsichord, but it is a little bit different at the bottom of the key is like a little, it's almost like a pencil eraser. Right. And it presses on the string and sounds it.

00:24:41:21 - 00:24:57:06
Unknown
It doesn't pluck at the right, it doesn't plug it, it hits it and vibrates it. And then it's electronic. It's electronic. So it can sound a lot like a guitar, but it's its own thing. It's famously on a track coming up, you'll recognize, probably most famously. Yeah. Oh yeah, that we got little time. We got, we got some time.

00:24:57:06 - 00:25:09:02
Unknown
Here's number three. So now we're changing things up again. The balance of how they constructed this album is fantabulous. This is a beautiful.

00:25:09:04 - 00:25:20:05
Unknown
That's the title synthesizer, not the piano. All those. Yeah, yeah. Bad noises. Acoustic piano.

00:25:20:07 - 00:25:50:04
Unknown
His vocal sound here on this track is. And the bass, I believe, is Moog. A pretty high. On together. It's got a delay on his voice. Yes. And then something else. Interesting party too. Yeah. Sam. Andy, does anybody recognize what else there is for this? No. This is the most Holly's countermeasure to all the bands on slide on it.

00:25:50:08 - 00:26:01:10
Unknown
It's a cliche to say that harmony is melody, but Stevie proves that with every one of these tracks.

00:26:01:12 - 00:26:35:13
Unknown
Well, let's say the love you feel for me, whether it's using mono synth to create this new listening, I'm a sight to see. Many do. It's so lyrical. Those synth, all that feel my love I mean obviously incredible. Being one of the most beautiful ballads ever written.

00:26:35:14 - 00:26:55:04
Unknown
Well, in my mind a little bit. Oh yeah, we can conquer the world. All right, we're going to come back to this. I already know this from this episode. However, as long as you're listening to listen to each of these tracks three times in a row in full. Yeah. And so there's two tracks on here that are just Stevie.

00:26:55:04 - 00:27:09:20
Unknown
I mean, I gotta say, I think it's 90%, maybe even more. Is Stevie on here in terms of playing all the instruments, but the ones where there's nobody else on it, as far as I can tell, is you and I and Big Brother are one. The people who are the most intense tracks. Two people who are on here are just like, it's not.

00:27:09:20 - 00:27:26:23
Unknown
They're not inconsequential by any means, but they are like the sprinkles on top of Stevie's cake that he's made for us, you know? And they're very intentional. Like there's like, oh, like you can hear musically why they were placed there, why they were doing what they're doing, the production on this, like so we can't overstate enough. I know for a lot of people they're like production.

00:27:26:23 - 00:27:46:19
Unknown
What does that mean? Is that the people, the producers going out and ordering sandwiches on the break or picking up drugs for the band, just kidding that none of that ever happened in the studio. But no, but when we talk about production, it's actually like such an input. Like as musicians, although we've both produce stuff as well as as musicians, we tend to, especially jazz musicians.

00:27:46:19 - 00:28:01:21
Unknown
We're like, we don't need to produce. We produce our own stuff. Well, to get to this level, you do need a producer or producers, and sometimes that can be the artist. That's the hardest way to do it. Sometimes, especially kind of having being in the driver's seat because you have to have a vision for it. You have to have objectivity.

00:28:02:02 - 00:28:22:20
Unknown
And so again, Stevie Wonder, another incredible talent that he had was that he had a vision, like to be able to put together a track like that and have it feel like that for humans around the world? You had to have a vision for that before it exists, because he had to put all he had to do. Each of those instruments, each of those lines, multiple vocals, multiple Moog lines, the bass, the Tonto, the piano.

00:28:22:20 - 00:28:39:17
Unknown
How do you mix that track? And then you got to mix it afterwards and make it like, make all these disparate elements work. So, yeah. All right. We haven't found yet. Yeah. And it just keeps getting better because next up is Tuesday Heartbreak. Yeah. Now we really start rocking a long feel good or a feel good feel good breakup song, right?

00:28:39:23 - 00:28:57:11
Unknown
Yeah. And again we've got so maybe your baby. Pretty aggressive lyrics music you and I super romantic beautiful ballad played I mean look the first and the third track are played a lot of weddings. Can you just in case we don't hear it again, can you play the very end of you? And I know because that's going to be why you give me that.

00:28:57:13 - 00:29:13:19
Unknown
Oh no no, no. If it's part of this. Yeah. You know keep it okay. All right. So far we've got to say heartbreak. This is all Stevie on everything except a little bit. Well, not a little bit, but some great background vocals from Shirley Brewer and Deniece Williams, who work with Stevie a bunch. And then a gentleman from Saint Louis, Missouri.

00:29:13:19 - 00:29:25:14
Unknown
Dave Sanborn. Ever heard of him on alto saxophone? Let's check this out.

00:29:25:16 - 00:29:52:18
Unknown
Did you hear that little bit that Sam Ward already played to the heartbeat guy? Come on now. Seem to be on this 27 years old. Damn, every song is a banger. Is this the greatest clavinet album ever? It's got to be got that I think is right. It's got to be. Where he's placing the make Sanborn now, it's so great to catch like he's that he's layered two, right.

00:29:52:18 - 00:30:16:10
Unknown
He's the same, counterpoint. Yeah. Oh, what a great sound here to the why on the, On the clap. Yeah, yeah. But then the other clap over, they have all the beats, but just these are the climbing up throughout the whole album. It's genius. Yeah. There you go. Let's say that's some intentional back rumble. Better. Did you see?

00:30:16:12 - 00:30:21:23
Unknown
Oh, Sam one doing Sanborn. Shit.

00:30:22:01 - 00:30:42:23
Unknown
I want to be with you. When? When I go. Oh, I mean, in the day, I kind of pre disco, I had groove, they gave me a little dizzy. You. Can.

00:30:43:01 - 00:31:01:14
Unknown
Do you see heart in me? Oh, yeah. Seem to be okay. So interesting thing about this track. Young David Sanborn, but a little bit older. And see that he's 27. Apparently, he came in the studio. Everything else was tracked. Or at least all the rhythm section stuff. Maybe not. I don't know about the background vocals, Dave.

00:31:01:17 - 00:31:24:01
Unknown
They brought in Dave Sanborn to play over and they're playing it for obviously there's no music or anything. It's just there. They're playing it for Sanborn. He's kind of playing along and he's like, okay, first take that, first go through and he's like, oh, can you play it again? And then he's like doing that second time through. Then after that he's like, okay, I think I got, I think I got, you know, where you want me to play and see if he's like, oh, that was great.

00:31:24:01 - 00:31:37:11
Unknown
We got it. And I was. And Sanborn was like, well, what do you mean? He's like, he's like, we got it. We got what we need. And if you think about it, check this out. The way it starts.

00:31:37:13 - 00:31:55:10
Unknown
He's just figuring it out. He's just figuring it out. But but what a great song. That's awesome. And look, they could have left that part out. Yeah, it just brought him like brought him in there. But like to get that spontaneity of the thing and you know you know first of all shout out Dave Sanborn R.I.P. we lost a master recently.

00:31:55:10 - 00:32:13:10
Unknown
You know what the last couple of years and I got to work with him a couple times and hang with him. Yeah. And he was a very like, Sam where people think, oh, he could. I mean, he could come in, just do this exhibit. Hey. Right. Yeah. But he was also very like, wait, what is this core? I remember, like, he called and texted me one time before we do this gig, just we were just doing three tunes and he was like, well, I want to know, what chord are you going to play?

00:32:13:10 - 00:32:27:11
Unknown
Like? He's very like, want to know everything was happening. So the fact that you could just come in and do that and then it's a really cool thing. Yeah. Huge connection here. Our very own Bob debut on the bass. Did a few tours with, Sanborn right before he passed away too, which I know was exhilarating for Bobby.

00:32:27:15 - 00:32:43:05
Unknown
Absolutely. And then, you know, kind of getting towards the middle of the record, I think this is a good sort of entry point to the I don't want to say the meat of the record, because I feel like this is such a meaty record. Yeah. I mean, maybe your baby at number two, there's no. Yeah. Like I said, man, that we'll get to it, but there's no filler on this album at all.

00:32:43:07 - 00:33:06:07
Unknown
Every song, no filler all through genius. That's why I'm saying this might be the most incredible collection of songs that an album could possibly have. Go. Keep going, keep me on. You've got it. You've got a bad girl. The verse chord progression.

00:33:06:08 - 00:33:11:06
Unknown
Oh.

00:33:11:08 - 00:33:16:13
Unknown
Two voices on that, on the title.

00:33:16:15 - 00:33:47:06
Unknown
Oh, yeah. Man. He's in. Stevie's busy a f with that blue and bass. And it's so killing holding you back from my love. And you got it back. And you construction. It's like an architecture. But this this year families do it. When you see stones to do triplets and tenderness. That's in my kiss. And you got it back, girl.

00:33:47:08 - 00:34:17:16
Unknown
You got it, man. You know, clap on this. You can't stop this play. Oh, pop tunes can have bridges completely details you find. Oh, okay. Interesting thing right there. I'm gonna start it right at the same place. Interesting thing there. Came to that bridge in the mix. We're talking about production on this brought. Not only is he a little bit like kind of lower mid-range vocally, but they got that to the synth line above his vocals.

00:34:17:16 - 00:34:44:20
Unknown
Actually, in terms of the mix like that adjusted, which you think would be counterintuitive for like a start. Yeah. I mean, that's where wave thing. Yeah. Yeah. Oh oh. So that's like that's like ride that bad boy up all day shelf.

00:34:44:22 - 00:35:07:17
Unknown
Said you to be you know. No let all his voice which an escape can be found. All you hear every little once okay. All right. So yeah, vocal performance is super subdued on this one. It just makes it so smooth. I recommend everybody I did this last night. Headphones. Nice pair cans. Sure. Listen to this record, man.

00:35:07:20 - 00:35:26:22
Unknown
I think the mix. This might be the best I know. Do we do we have too many superlatives on the. You'll hear, podcast here. Not for this one. This man. So I'm saying this is all the time. Go ahead. I was thinking, I mean, but we can say it's the best album, but I mean, I think production we always talk about, like, production is so all encompassing, but just in terms of the song, like Stevie's voice is so direct.

00:35:27:00 - 00:35:44:14
Unknown
Ari 20, that was what was this was all recorded on confirmed from the engineer. But the idea of like, there's not a lot of EQ on it, there's almost no reverb. It's very like dry, except like you and I has a very specific kind of like there's musical reasons why it's changed. But if you listen, it's with headphones.

00:35:44:14 - 00:36:11:04
Unknown
Like how the choices of panning middle, left, right. It's very simple, conceptually, but it's genius. The execution. It's like when you really start to look at like how it was done, you're like, damn, you know, it's kind of like, yeah, I want to be like, yes, you know what? You know, it's catching me about this. You know what it reminds me of production wise, that I think might be surprising is it reminds me of, like, a little bit of Abbey road and let it be right, those last couple of Beatles albums where they were going crazy with the production.

00:36:11:04 - 00:36:31:04
Unknown
They were adding some synthesizers which were new. Even the White Album, you can, you can say, but with the way that they were mixing things and putting things in different corners of the mix. Yeah, this is, I think, playing the torch of that and then like adding the layer of Stevie, no, no shade on John, Paul, George and Ringo.

00:36:31:04 - 00:36:54:17
Unknown
But Stevie Genius layered on top of that fifth Beatle George Martin. Yeah, yeah, no shade on any of those guys. Like, I'm obviously. But like, Stevie is like another level of musical genius. Yeah, that when you throw that kind of production, I think, which is, like I said, on par with those later Beatles album, man, I just think it's it becomes this.

00:36:54:19 - 00:37:12:01
Unknown
I mean, and obviously in the 70s, we're going to see Stevie just like, take this and run with it. Yeah. You know, ending with obviously culminating with songs in The Key of Life. But this to me again is up there. Yeah. With that, even The Secret Life of Plants, too. Let's not forget about that. A little bit of a people see us lesser known, maybe even his peak in some way.

00:37:12:01 - 00:37:37:22
Unknown
Not as many hits, but incredible. But I think, yeah, when we look back at this historically, Robert Margulis, Malcolm Cecil, Stevie Wonder being in the studio together with each of their roles, with their trust, with their like the production being about let's Stevie be Stevie. Yes. But also like having the tools there, having the, you know, in terms of like the tanto, the sense the drums are set like there's all these little things that you could say, oh yeah, we just grab that or whatever.

00:37:37:22 - 00:37:59:03
Unknown
But like there was an intentionality to it that was, you know, no distractions, no iPhones, whatever. It was 1971. What the hell? But, I mean, it's a really interesting thing. You're saying there was no iPhones in 1971? Stevie would have had one. He was a technologist, Steve. He is a technologist. Okay. So now we're going to move on to what's probably the most famous track on here, for sure.

00:37:59:05 - 00:38:18:09
Unknown
I believe it was like, what was there through superstition and other such, I would definitely number one hits. Yeah, because You Are the Sunshine was pop hit and easy listening. Superstition was RB or whatever they call it, time and pop number one as well. So if if you and we can talk about this later with cool bits, but if you think that you are the sunshine might be the weakest link.

00:38:18:11 - 00:38:34:23
Unknown
I didn't say that. You did say that. I did not say that to me. I didn't say that any times. Oh my cat, can we have podcast, your podcast, your confidence, her confidentiality. I'm going to put this. I can tell my blood type too. I love superstition, I think, but to me, like it's this is the one that stands out.

00:38:34:23 - 00:38:50:09
Unknown
It's like this is a pop song form wise. I think it's great, but I think there's so many more interesting moments on this album. You know? I think it's good to have this banger that's just like, obviously like a summer dance hit, but like, man, wow, we're going to reduce it to that, Well, no no no. Well let's listen.

00:38:50:11 - 00:38:56:01
Unknown
Okay.

00:38:56:03 - 00:39:02:18
Unknown
I mean, okay, it's.

00:39:02:19 - 00:39:42:01
Unknown
Oh, I hung up. It's pretty awesome. I think it's probably just because this is probably the most played one. Yeah. Since this album came out, this has been it's definitely aged better than you are. The sunshine. You said it. Yeah, sure. Very superstitious. I writing on the wall. There you shoot straight up. Letters back the fall. The layers, the levels.

00:39:42:06 - 00:40:04:14
Unknown
13 month old baby. Oh, the mood going along with it. You know what you're talking about. Wedding. That's my only thing with superstition is I did have to play it. That Holy Wedding man song. That summer before I moved to New York, I had to play this every one of those wedding for you when you were defining things half step.

00:40:04:14 - 00:40:31:07
Unknown
You don't understand. Half step to the for. Superstition. Oh, man. I love the sloppy mess in there. Okay. Claps I'm never going to clap. Sound amazing on superstition. On the sticky clap on. That is just friggin ridiculous. Okay, so this is some of the clowns on their own. Like you can go on a deep dive on this in here.

00:40:31:13 - 00:40:58:09
Unknown
There's some really good breakdowns of each of the individual ones with with nerds. Yeah, yeah, if you want to do that. But this is some of the isolated claps I got for there's so. So another delay effect on it. Yep. Echo like an echo. One of the four Echoplex. Yeah. The delay is almost like a half a beat.

00:40:58:11 - 00:41:21:17
Unknown
Yeah. Stuck with compound is definitely time, right? It's so funny. You don't hear it in the mix. No, it doesn't sound this wet either. No. Big bam! Caleb, you guys ever hear this in there? Yeah, like Sam, like I know this, but check out the variation on the two. Who do pop? Pop? Like he is.

00:41:21:21 - 00:41:47:21
Unknown
He played these down. These are for class? No, I think, yeah, I think these are all of them. Yeah. These are all. Yeah. He's just playing. Yeah. I but the whole thing is like this. I bet at that. And so, like. Yeah, the whole thing is like, he tracked it one thing at a time. And the thing was, this is confirmed to he tracked the drums first.

00:41:47:21 - 00:42:09:08
Unknown
So he plays everything on here, except the horns. Trevor Lawrence on tenor. Steve. Steve Maggio on trumpet. Steve, he's playing everybody. Talented Trevor Lawrence. Yeah. So he laid down the drums first, which is crazy because he had to think about like all those verse. I think it's like three verses. Maybe the course is that transition thing at the end.

00:42:09:09 - 00:42:32:06
Unknown
He was just like playing it back deck, like all that stuff in there. Here's some of the do I have the drums, I hope I have the drums. Oh no, here it is. This is from the middle. Kind of squeak on the hi hats there. Yeah, that's a squeak. That's some more or less drumming right there.

00:42:32:06 - 00:42:50:15
Unknown
Snare drum. Take it there. I mean, all his fills are different. There's some kind of weird, like, gate or something on the the higher two that really makes it like. Like what is that, a reverse gate? Like when there's something like. Because it jumps out. Check it out.

00:42:50:17 - 00:43:08:09
Unknown
Like the high hats louder than the snare. Yeah, it's just up mics. Check out what he does here on the snare on this next show. But that that could take out to tactical. But the. Yeah. It's so funny. I don't that's the only time he does it on the. I don't know if you would ever mix a drum kit like that these days, man.

00:43:08:09 - 00:43:32:01
Unknown
It's so really unrealistic. And like, it's so he played the. It's not like they got that pattern. Just looped it. Looped like they would now. Yeah. The humanity of it. The tempo alters throughout it. Yeah. So check this out. This is Robert Margulis talking about this Steve's music, especially Steve's music is the rubato. When we were first tracking it media, we thought we didn't know Steve's skill on the drums.

00:43:32:01 - 00:43:53:08
Unknown
Right. So we had I sort of major guy, I don't remember which guy I was. Bernard Purdie came in to try to play sure about Steve songs. He couldn't do it. The great Motown drummer. Yeah, he couldn't do it. He couldn't do it. No, he couldn't, because the song was speeding up and slowing down, and he didn't know where it was.

00:43:53:09 - 00:44:11:17
Unknown
Right. I see, but Steve knew where because he hear the song while he was playing the drums. Right. So he would put the drums down with no other parts. Is that true superstition? He played the drums first all the way through, all the way. But he knew the sight. He knew what the song was. Yes. And you guys, did you guys know the song?

00:44:11:18 - 00:44:25:05
Unknown
No, I had no idea. You just listening to him put this thing down and said, let's make a funky bass sound. That was the first thing out of his mouth. Yeah. He finished. You can hear it on one. I don't have the stem on here. As soon as he finished the end of the drums, he's like, let's just hit that.

00:44:25:05 - 00:44:52:13
Unknown
Let's hit some funky bass now and check this out. This is the funky bass on superstition. The Moog. Yeah. He said yeah. Dang. Oh, and the variation of it. This gets kind of buried in the mix.

00:44:52:15 - 00:45:10:07
Unknown
Oh, man. We gotta make a record with with a milk bass. No offense, Bob, we gotta do that. It's so great. And then. And then, like, when he starts, get, like, the whole thing. He's just. So he did the drums first. Then he came back into the bass along with the drums. The funky bass. Yeah, I think mission accomplished.

00:45:10:13 - 00:45:45:09
Unknown
Mission accomplished. So fun. And then the vocals of course, is doubled. Writing's on the wall. But not let not very superstitious, but different vocal, you know, not like they do with Spotify where they take the same one and duplicate it. It's not that. No, no 13 month old baby who broke the looking glass killing seven years of bad luck.

00:45:45:11 - 00:46:25:00
Unknown
You're good things in your path. Oh, but he's rhythmic attenuation. When you believe in things that you don't understand and you suffer. Oh. Superstition, Amazing man. Incredible. All right, I mean, like I said, superstition test track on the album. This, Oh, man, this is like I got see your face and hands and they like, you know, it's so much intentionality between when he goes to doubling versus just once, it's very rarely more than two, but with those vocals bad.

00:46:25:00 - 00:46:45:06
Unknown
And then he goes back to one, like stuff that we do on arranging where you double something and then you'll have it harmony. But he had such a vision for that kind of thing. So, so like intentional but improvisatory to big. I mean, like I don't even want to imitate like, but he's like getting those pitch on those minor pentatonic and those blues notes and stuff, and then the phrasing and then his rhythm.

00:46:45:06 - 00:47:01:08
Unknown
Yeah, rhythm is like what really pulls it all together. The last, the last. 442 time I did a lot of singing and I did a lot of doubling like this, but I and I was so precious to try to like, get it, like to just try to sing the exact same line. It's so funny to hear in, like, one of Stevie's biggest hits.

00:47:01:10 - 00:47:22:05
Unknown
He's really not that precious about it. He's going away from the double, you know, and he's splitting. Those things at the end of lines is incredible. Yeah. Now we would be remiss if we didn't mention the Jeff Beck connection on superstition, because Jeff Beck was in the studio for part of this, and originally Stevie had written this and was going to give it to Jeff Beck to use on a record or whatever.

00:47:22:07 - 00:47:37:18
Unknown
And apparently there's been a lot of misinformation about it. Some people are like, the legend was that, like Stevie then said, no, no, no, I want to do it for myself and took it back like and reneged on the deal. Which is not true because Robert and Malcolm talked about this at various times. They said they convinced him they were like, no, no, no, you got you got to do it.

00:47:37:20 - 00:47:55:01
Unknown
You've got the vibe on this, you got to record it. So Stevie was like, okay, Jeff Beck also recorded it. Yeah, like a year later. And it wasn't as big of a hit, but he had some kind of a hit on it or whatever. Well, how can you beat this one? Yeah, like but supposedly. Well, let's hear Jeff back talk about this because he was he was around then and and this apparently is verified actually happened.

00:47:55:01 - 00:48:19:20
Unknown
This is Jeff Beck that agreed with me playing on Stevie's talking book. He went off for like and I grabbed the opportunity to sit behind Cozy Powell's drum kit. I started playing honey like I knew income. Stevie Pretty shouts out, don't stop! And I said, stay. There's Jeff. It's Jeff. I don't play the drums. He said, yes, you just he started playing the band, you know, the Black Panther friends.

00:48:19:22 - 00:48:37:14
Unknown
And I was like, oh my God, I'm just playing the Stevie Wonder. Oh, we got a little bit of Peter's famous British accent. That was great. Well, he said, talking. What do you say, top? Forget it. Okay, here we are. We don't know. We're not we the only the part we're missing here in terms of that. We haven't played well.

00:48:37:15 - 00:48:51:18
Unknown
We played the drums. We played the clouds vocals, the mood bass. How about the horns? Oh. That's a dry, direct horn sound in it.

00:48:51:20 - 00:49:26:01
Unknown
5055 come on now, get there up. Yeah. So that's that's that's all the pieces that go together. So good production, the concept, the Stevie and and the, you know, I mean, just. Yeah. Okay. Now number seven, should we go ahead and drop. This is actually my desert island track. Should I call it this? I might be the greatest.

00:49:26:03 - 00:49:46:17
Unknown
As far as, like, albums go, this also might be just one of the greatest track orders ever. Because. So. Yeah. What do you follow superstition with? You saw that with one of the most beautiful, poignant songs of the early 70s. Yeah. And actually. Yeah. And now we're getting to some of his, I hate to say, political lyrics and stuff, but just what do we call it in the.

00:49:46:19 - 00:50:05:03
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, just so topical. Still for today unfortunately. Okay. So and also I'm not going to give you the good transition because we don't have it on the iPad. But on the album I believe as I recall, this flows right into it's one of the best Segways between tracks. It happens seamlessly, seamlessly. Yeah, but this is Big Brother track number seven.

00:50:05:05 - 00:50:13:01
Unknown
I think you can still hear the drums of superstition fading down. Oh, Monica.

00:50:13:03 - 00:50:33:23
Unknown
Oh, you forgot Stevie played harmonica, He's playing percussion on this. You say that. Can you stop and start over? So I want, like, something to listen for is like. And this is why I was saying, like, this is the greatest clarinet album, hands down. So we just went from that real sticky, delayed clapping out of superstition, super funky.

00:50:33:23 - 00:51:03:05
Unknown
And then listen to what he does here. The very next track. It becomes almost like a finger. Sounds like a twisted guitar. Like like a drag. That's what I thought it was. Sustained. Yeah. All right. Yeah. No. That's great. E e e. And the move based super simple this time. Your name is the the guy you say that you are turning on the telly.

00:51:03:05 - 00:51:12:21
Unknown
It's the blues, by the way. Blues form one, two, four. Go! No way back two, one.

00:51:12:23 - 00:51:52:20
Unknown
Your name is Big Brother Blues. You say that you're tired of me. But I still got children by the day. You five. My name is nobody. Girl I can't wait to see your face inside I don't under the bed. So great emotional. And you've got there. You've got a lot of things happening. But in terms of like melodies, there's three different things.

00:51:53:01 - 00:52:15:06
Unknown
There's the main melody. Right? They did it. Who do they build it. They do their baby put away who do. But. And then you got them boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Right. The root movement, which is main, it's like a different instrument. It's almost like an acoustic bass or something. But then he'll go up and then he plays doo doo doo boop boop.

00:52:15:06 - 00:52:35:19
Unknown
He's playing a 10th below on that Moog at that part going down when he goes to the four chord boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Exactly. Yeah. And so you have that melodic thing, you've got this melody, but then you've got the harmonica like that's the the bird floating up here improvising above it. So it's three things now continuing on here we're gonna get some more added slowly.

00:52:35:20 - 00:52:55:11
Unknown
Meaning your name is Big Brother. The harmonica playing his dick every tell me all the love. Going up. Hiding it down every day.

00:52:55:13 - 00:53:28:04
Unknown
Your name is your name. His fourth voice. Fourth voice, second vocal. You told me as a drum. Personality. In order to president of your soul. Beaubien is the president. President of your soul. I live in the ghetto. You just come to visit me, bro. Election time is my.

00:53:28:06 - 00:54:01:02
Unknown
Soul. Oh. Dude, that was the name. Check this man talking about production. Check out before he comes in. This is something I hate. They. They've taken this away for years. The breath. Oh, check it out. When he did it, humans breathe. Yeah. But you need to move right here. To do better. To do. Oh. So can we play this one out?

00:54:01:02 - 00:54:29:14
Unknown
This one has one of the greatest apexes. Oh, yeah. Let's make sure it's not. Think the new. Day, bro. I live in the ghetto, but some. I will move all my feet to the door.

00:54:29:16 - 00:54:43:06
Unknown
Yeah, we still got a bit of history. My name is secluded. Yeah. Yes. We live in a house the size of a match. Was.

00:54:43:08 - 00:54:49:19
Unknown
Just wall to wall.

00:54:49:21 - 00:55:13:04
Unknown
You just killed all the leader. What do you mean? I don't even have to do nothing to you. You cause your country to blow up. Unbelievable, unbelievable.

00:55:13:06 - 00:55:18:01
Unknown
Oh!

00:55:18:03 - 00:55:45:03
Unknown
Brother. They're good. Like, simultaneously. One of the best vocal performance is an incredibly written song, poignant lyrics, amazing production. And then on top of it all, like. Like world class level improvization on the harmonica. Happening throughout the whole piece. Like throughout the whole thing. Improvised soul blue solo, every. Everything he plays is something to study. Yeah. What? I mean, it's just insane.

00:55:45:05 - 00:56:04:20
Unknown
And think about he's 21 years old. It's insane. Yeah. And I mean, the thing about production too, with this, like all that great stuff that could be such a it could be too much. Yeah, it would be like, like, how does a great chef take all these different things and not just shove it down your throat, like how that is all presented and coexist in this beautiful, track?

00:56:04:20 - 00:56:20:12
Unknown
I think this is the apex of the record and it's number seven. I'm like, where it lies on the record. Makes sense. Comment I mean, it's just it's a perfectly crafted record. Sumi, I think this is a perfectly correct, incredible. Yeah. And that's that's the one track. Is that the only track? Oh, no. You and I also. That's just all Stevie.

00:56:20:14 - 00:56:49:00
Unknown
The other thing is, like, for it to feel. So, I never knew until years later from when I first heard this record that Stevie was playing all the instruments on it. I don't remember when. I mean, I learned it relatively early on, but there was a like for it to sound like his ability to have a vision in terms of what's going to be added on, like when he's in there tracking, like he has to imagine what else is going to be in there as he's creating that part, the last part, he can kind of fit in with the whole thing, which I was maybe the harmonica, who knows?

00:56:49:00 - 00:57:06:11
Unknown
But I mean, regardless, it's like it's like you're looking at it like, okay, I know what this is going to be. Yeah, but then it's. But then he maintains that improvisatory feel to it. Let's keep in mind too. This is like pre ProTools pre computers involved besides the Moog involved. Right. But pre all of that stuff where you're cutting tape right.

00:57:06:11 - 00:57:25:16
Unknown
Like to edit things like you're multi tracking and there's debris degradation. And so you you don't have like this unlimited amount of space and time to do everything you want to do and move things over by this thing. Anything you really can on this. Like you have to be able to just bring it right, like you. And you have to also be able to like, let things be and live as they are.

00:57:25:20 - 00:57:43:04
Unknown
And it's these like when you hear the I love when you play the stems from superstitions, because you can hear these little things that just aren't perfect, but they're human and they're beautiful. They're actually just like the best part about it. And I think when you hear like old guys complain like, yeah, music's too sterile these days or whatever, that's kind of what we are talking about a little bit.

00:57:43:06 - 00:58:03:16
Unknown
And that's which isn't true, actually, because a lot of the best artists, even today, let those things in their music. Yeah, but it's just so easy these days to make everything perfect. So when you hear mediocre musicians, it's usually perfect, right? And it's like, this sucks because I can just hear you. Just like using a computer to make everything just line up perfectly and take all your breaths out and everything.

00:58:03:16 - 00:58:27:03
Unknown
It's just ridiculous. Like, it just sounds like it just let's just let I do it right. I probably is putting in like, breath noises from Stevie because they're, you know what I mean? But like, I don't know, man. That's that's my favorite shit. Was this the apex moment or at least like kind of the apex period for technology serving art instead of maybe what we're at for some time now where art is having to serve technology.

00:58:27:03 - 00:58:50:09
Unknown
I think this is one of the this is an apex of an artist using technology in the best possible ways. I think it still happens, you know, since before this, since this even currently, there are people who are just like real visionaries of seeing how technology can make art better. Shout out Drake! Well, no, but Stevie at the time caught something.

00:58:50:10 - 00:59:06:02
Unknown
That's what I was saying. Like, it's like his ears are so big that he must have heard. Like he must have heard. Let it be. And been like, oh, I can make that better. Like I can do that, but but it's going to be better, right? You know, like how they're approaching the production of these things. Right? And like, he was he was right.

00:59:06:02 - 00:59:22:15
Unknown
He was it. And then like heard a mog somewhere, heard a synthesizer from who knows where and was like, I know exactly what I would do with that. And there are people who are still doing that and still use technology to like incredible effect for art. And I think Stevie just was one of these people. He's first of all, he's young here, so he doesn't know what he can't do.

00:59:22:15 - 00:59:37:03
Unknown
And he's like interested in the technology of the day. There's no limitations. He doesn't think it's bullshit. Or it's like, yeah, that's cheating or whatever. He has no concept because he's 21, which is what we need when we're trying to push art forward, is young people who are like, yeah, I don't care about your rules that you abide by.

00:59:37:05 - 00:59:56:10
Unknown
I'm going to make my own rules. Yeah. Doing that here. And then he just happens to be one of the great musical minds of the past 500 years. And he had these two enablers there in the studio that were just like, they recognized his genius. And we're like, okay, we're going to make sure that as much of this gets down on tape, gets recorded beautifully and like it became a collaborative thing.

00:59:56:10 - 01:00:16:13
Unknown
But I think this thing of like Stevie saying, well, maybe the guardrails of technology, the limitations, like he didn't think it was a limitation. He was just like, oh my God, now I can like create multiple multiple voice polyphony with a couple like four voices on. And now we're like, that's stupid. My iPhone can do a thousand voices.

01:00:16:15 - 01:00:38:19
Unknown
But I mean, so he saw it as limitless. But the actual barriers, the guardrails of technology at the time, for instance, with the Mog base, like they had to part of the thing that they did was they changed how the portamento, which is how you control the phrasing so it doesn't just sample so that everything slides between the slides, because the volume, I believe couldn't be changed really, outside of using the volume control.

01:00:39:00 - 01:00:59:07
Unknown
Like you couldn't affect the sound of it, but with it. So they it was it was like some people use the ribbon thing at the top, but it would be finicky or something. Yeah. So they had it on one of the dials as part of the Tonto system. And like so as he's playing he's adjusting it there. And he kind of learned how to do that by feel like kind of creatively articulating with it, articulating with it.

01:00:59:07 - 01:01:17:23
Unknown
But but like you have to have a vision for how you want it to sound. Because I will take you back to this. It starts with just that, right? But that barrel, like you don't just do that, like that has to be more like you have to feel that and hear that. And so these were actually kind of crude instruments still in a way, it was the most advanced thing anywhere.

01:01:18:05 - 01:01:32:14
Unknown
And what he was doing with it obviously, you know, Chick Corea Joseph and Herbie Hancock, other people right around that time is there. But this was early days with being able to like take a vision of like, wait, can we make it sound like this? Not just bam, oh, but like like a little bit of vibe with it too.

01:01:32:15 - 01:01:49:17
Unknown
Incredible. Yeah. Incredible. Okay, well, it keeps getting better. It does keep getting better. We're going to kind of fly through this because I do want to get to our categories. But this is blame it. Blame it on the sun. This is yeah you're right I mean can we say it's better than Big Brother though?

01:01:49:19 - 01:02:07:05
Unknown
I mean, it's very good. There's no better or worse. But this is a banger. This is an all timer. Yeah, this is interesting too. He's back at some piano when she hasn't been at it for a while. Has my love gone? I want to hear it when the first chorus kicks in. It's one of the great moments on this album.

01:02:07:07 - 01:02:21:21
Unknown
Oh, it is the movement to the left. 16th notes. All of a sudden it seems to love like that. I love the way.

01:02:21:23 - 01:02:47:21
Unknown
It doesn't let it down. Where is my spirit? I'm nowhere near way. Oh yeah. See my love is gone. Question. And then the answer.

01:02:47:23 - 01:03:16:07
Unknown
Float. But I'll blame it on the sun. On Sunday at the 16th. Yeah, I'll blame it. Background vocals on that one's quiet I blame Incredibles. Oh, All right. And then next, after this one can stop. Okay. After blaming on the sun, which is just incredible. Start to finish. We got looking for another pure love, not another sort of slow song.

01:03:16:07 - 01:03:35:15
Unknown
It's interesting that he ends with basically, like four slower songs in a row. Yeah. And it doesn't feel like it's losing energy because there's some really interesting moments. No, I think it has a great like, if you look at superstition, I think a lot of people would look at that as kind of the energetic, the energetic peak. But I think Big Brother is the spiritual peak of this record.

01:03:35:15 - 01:03:54:15
Unknown
And like the real, which is a perfect placement. And then from there, it's not that it's trailing off, but it's kind of like once you've had that, that intense main course pulling back a little bit, although I mean, lyrically and stuff, this is still very intense in a lot of ways, but it just, I don't know, it just has a a flow that feels right.

01:03:54:17 - 01:04:22:13
Unknown
This is definitely harkening back to track one, sunshine, so it's not like, oh man, a little bit of Big Brother. No. Next one is a little deeper, but I'm, I call this sonically, this is the High Hat album. The high high hat Clavell the the I love it and it's so and because there's so many interesting things with transitions and like groove placements later on in the tracks, like we just heard on blame Always the Sun, that really being like clued into that hype.

01:04:22:15 - 01:04:36:06
Unknown
I think most people listen to it now and be like, what the hell is that? Yeah, gate. It's got to be a gate or something. But it's like they they would be like, fix that. I don't know if it's a gate. I think it's just up in the mix. Okay. Yeah. So it's like, well that's a gate. It's just an open gate.

01:04:36:11 - 01:04:58:00
Unknown
Correct. A gate cuts it off. Oh yeah. What's the reverse gate called? Opens up I don't know I don't know. Negatives are some. This is the, can be Sam engineer. Sam. So they're just like, I don't hear you guys talk about gates. You want to stop at Sawtooth? Sounds. Oh, right. This is cool, right? Never a problem.

01:04:58:00 - 01:05:26:13
Unknown
Oh, yeah. Jeff Beck on guitar here. Jeff's got my nice, dry soul on this. Never a little bit of foreshadowing there. On my mind. Haha. Days before dude. Day one happy. It's a cure until your soul.

01:05:26:15 - 01:06:04:19
Unknown
Also boss fight Howard boss fight this on electric guitar. This two guitar. Get it boss fight song. I'll pull back, And stay on the south corner. Looking for another key? That's a cause in my life. Oh, oh. They resolve it. Let's do it again. And I'm looking for nothing. It's the chorus, right? Yeah. I'm looking for another view.

01:06:04:20 - 01:06:15:08
Unknown
I'm in la la la la la la. Up.

01:06:15:10 - 01:06:32:14
Unknown
Oh. You heard Stevie talk about this. You got to do it. Yeah, yeah, he's already talking to do it. Yeah, yeah, that.

01:06:32:16 - 01:06:40:21
Unknown
You.

01:06:40:23 - 01:07:07:15
Unknown
Do kill it. Do it. Yeah. The fate has turned away. You don't you? That's such an interesting thing here in Stevie. Like, you know, boom to the day to day. Writing's on the wall. Like, he has so many things on here that are, like, minor pentatonic blues bass. And then this duh duh duh duh duh duh duh da da da da da da da yo.

01:07:07:20 - 01:07:27:19
Unknown
Major scale the minor which becomes like that for I mean, like he has so many like he understands harmony and melody. The the interaction between those at a very high level. You don't say, yeah, who? Stevie Wonder Wonder's there's no way people would be like, oh, you can sing great. He can play drums great. He's funny. He does accent the greatest, but like, it's funny, he has gray.

01:07:27:21 - 01:07:43:17
Unknown
He's legitimately funny. He's a funny person. So you do it. Why you gotta segment his talent? Why can't he be a harmonically funny guy? He's all these things. But I mean, but harmony and melody, there's a lot of people like, obviously he's got great harmony to his tunes, but the interaction between melody, harmony, that's when you go next level.

01:07:43:19 - 01:08:12:01
Unknown
Okay, there's levels to the game. Peter Martin 2025. There's levels to the game. Stevie Wonder is at the top. All right. Are we to track number ten? Let's. Is it okay? Great. Enter. Yes. Great. And just Stevie on this one to epic. It's kind of an epic ending, right? This has got some Beatles kind of a sound to it from.

01:08:12:03 - 01:08:46:02
Unknown
A cinematic used in High Fidelity, I believe John Cusack movie. All right. I feel like at the end, shattered dream, where it's a real vocal tour de force. If I hear him uncaged inside of the sweeping pad bass. Yeah, Moose and life. You can't mess with the volume swelling with it and was done. Nice thing to that. This had to be the drums track last on this one.

01:08:46:02 - 01:09:20:11
Unknown
I can tell. I mean, the sounds that made I used courtside sized people. Oh well, open up. I'm with your hearts and feet are empty. So great. You know, lyrically very optimistic ending. I believe when I fall in love with you, it will be forever incredible. I believe when the rocks on. Right. Yeah, it's an anthem. It's a rock.

01:09:20:11 - 01:09:42:18
Unknown
And forever Without Respect. Cackles of Queen of the cradle and the joys of chaos. Everything is different every time. I love it like it comes back to the verse. Like the bass gets a little bit more intro. I mean, yeah, he's playing. He's really just playing. He's having fun, man. He's there's a lot of joy and all of these takes.

01:09:42:19 - 01:09:58:20
Unknown
Yeah. It's what's so fun about hearing him play all these instruments. It's like nobody's there's like no ego because he's just playing for himself. Yeah. What I mean is he's supporting himself, doing what he wants to do, what he feels is right for the song is fun. Yeah. And if you really fun and if you know that he's playing everything, you find that out later, that's great.

01:09:58:20 - 01:10:10:18
Unknown
But if you don't know it, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's like, wow, what a great band. And then people are shocked when they're like, no, that was all him or how could you do that? Let's get to some categories. Peter. Yes, sir. What's your desert island track for this one, big brother? We listen to it.

01:10:10:18 - 01:10:28:10
Unknown
We listen everything. I mean, like, I really feel like that's the spiritual center of this record. You know, I have and I. And I truly mean this. Yeah. Dealer's choice. Can you send me with any of these ten tracks? I'm good. Like, the whole album to me is is so great. And you send me on Desert Island with anything.

01:10:28:10 - 01:10:48:01
Unknown
So Adam Manis 2025 Cop Out. Got it. That's right. I will not plant a flag. Apex moment bagless. What do you got for apex? Okay. This is. We didn't play this before because I wanted to wait on it. It's the ending to you and I. There's obviously a lot of things that I could cop out like you, but this is just incredible.

01:10:48:03 - 01:11:24:05
Unknown
I am not a cop. Okay? We're going to start at around 334. According to my notes. We're just gonna listen out to the end. Oh, wait. So I love you. And this is a great call for you. Dominant. How about you? You and I, the way he's playing piano, you and I, you know, you. Come on, Stevie, in my mind.

01:11:24:07 - 01:12:01:05
Unknown
We can conquer the world. There's levels. Right? Triplet. In love, you and I. Oh, and this next note here, which is the actual event. Oh. Oh, you're with us. Oh, what he's doing. This is what he. How he's singing. Oh, You know what I'm saying? Every other pop star on the planet, including huge acts of this time, must've been like, what the hell, man?

01:12:01:10 - 01:12:17:14
Unknown
Why? What am I going to what? I click on that. Going back to that. Yeah. And I mean to this. Everybody thinks that that's like it has the emotional feeling. Normally you'd have to, you know, go up a half step. Yeah. You'd have to what do you call that. Ascending transposing now modulate. Modulate. Exactly. But it feels like it modulates without modulating.

01:12:17:14 - 01:12:38:09
Unknown
All right. My my apex moment. I'm gonna go back to maybe your baby, and I'm going to go to the end as well. Oh, they had this killer lamb back so much, crime baby I may be a fake and may, well, you know. So the little, the little baby voice that he's got, that's all Stevie. He's kind of.

01:12:38:12 - 01:13:03:16
Unknown
He's slowly building it up, too. Yeah. I'm a little boy. Oh, I gotta we got to hear that part. He says I'm a little boy, baby. Oh, baby. Oh I'm. I'm a little boy. I'm. I'm the one I know all these improvizations one vocal here on these layers. Sometimes we like meters and meters track. We've got like crazy.

01:13:03:16 - 01:13:34:23
Unknown
But this is like, by the way, I'm like 3.5 minutes of this into this track. Yeah. It's just like, maybe your baby's gone, but you got to have the buildup. The plan for me. So I'm my. No, I mean, this is A25, one four progression, by the way. Parker. By the killer. Hey, here's where it starts. Oh, yeah.

01:13:35:01 - 01:13:56:23
Unknown
On the tonic. And, Yeah, I guess, yeah, yeah, my baby. Oh, yeah. You.

01:13:57:01 - 01:14:25:01
Unknown
Come on. As church, baby. This year. Hey, baby. I bet you can look back on that dominant seven right there. And one of the greatest moments in musical history when he. When he changes that note down. Yeah, it's one of the greatest moments of my life that when he says, hey, you know, the in church on the. And he just she'll come back tomorrow that part there it every time chills every time chills every time out of my seat.

01:14:25:03 - 01:14:46:06
Unknown
Oh so bespoke playlist title. What do you got? I've got wonderful wonderful. Get it Stevie plays it all okay Peter with the chatty Peter I'm going with check this one out. And this is I don't have GPT, but I'm going. Ready? Yeah. Music explored. Oh, okay. Is this so musical? How many times can you cop out one episode?

01:14:46:07 - 01:15:14:12
Unknown
Okay, okay. Up next, what do you got? Well, I got the obvious would be inner visions. It's literally next, but we could maybe look at a little bit, I don't know what's going on. Marvin Gaye. I would want to hear that after this and then maybe go to innovations. That would be fun. But then also we can go to some inspirations from, like when I was like a young pre-teen, that kind of connected me not only with Stevie's music of that time, but what I realized later on was going back to this Prince's Purple Rain.

01:15:14:14 - 01:15:32:13
Unknown
I think I think Purple Rain. I think Prince is just hugely, obviously influenced from this, from this time period. And then also D'Angelo voodoo famously recorded at Electric Lady Studios as well. So that's a nice little kind of connection there, I think. Prince's Purple Rain I was actually going to say Prince's self-titled oh, the one with the 78.

01:15:32:13 - 01:15:54:17
Unknown
Yeah. Where he's just like with no hair and the long, long hair in the no shirt. Yeah, that that's true. That's just from like, young genius perspective. Yeah. That's a great call. Yeah. Quibble bits. What do you got. So okay you alluded to this earlier. Thanks a lot Captain Obvious. You are the sunshine of okay. So I love this track in terms of how it sits on this record, how it starts, all the things that we talked about.

01:15:54:19 - 01:16:10:11
Unknown
So I have no quibble bits with it in terms of that on its own, as a tune co-opted by jazz players in lounges around the world. I have a little bit of a I don't think it's that strong of a song for that. This card pass, hard pass on this table. You know what? We can't all be right.

01:16:10:11 - 01:16:24:15
Unknown
Only I can be right. No, no, it's just not my favorite Stevie tune. That's what. That's what I mean. I think it fits within this. That's fine. So I don't even know if that's equivalent. It's just not my favorite. Stevie Milenkovic. I don't think it's weak. Michael. Move it is. I'm quibbling with your quibble. Bit on nuance. Sunshine.

01:16:24:17 - 01:16:43:02
Unknown
Cinnabon butter. What do you got? Well, I mean, I have it at five because I mean, I have it at five. Oh, okay. Good. Yeah. Everybody knows it. Yeah. Is it better than Kobe? You know what? I'm changing because you've been making fun of me saying equal. I'm gonna say yes. Yeah. You've had, like, six in a row.

01:16:43:03 - 01:16:59:20
Unknown
I'm gonna say yes. I'm also saying yes. It is. Oh, come on, that's how we do it, right? Accouterments. I have nine, but I might change this to ten. Yeah, I have ten, I think, because I don't think it could be any better. It's so iconic. It began this color palette of the next three. I think music in my mind was a different color palette.

01:16:59:20 - 01:17:17:06
Unknown
But these next three records talking about inner visions and feeling this, yeah, this brand, they all use the same brown mustards, all that stuff. Peter, thank you for this. Yeah. Thank you. Credible. Incredible. Thank you Stephen. Thank you all for listening. Wonder. Thank you Stevie Wonder. For everything. For real. For so many countless moments. Leave a comment.

01:17:17:06 - 01:17:34:07
Unknown
By the way, you know, I wasn't going to do this, but maybe we'll set up a little picture of myself, the missus, and Mr. Stevie Wonder. Can we put that photograph up? I need that, that'll be for another podcast. I'll tell that story of that night. That was at 1:30 a.m.. Don't forget to leave a comment on YouTube or leave us a rating and review wherever you get your podcast.

01:17:34:07 - 01:17:52:05
Unknown
This is from. We got a comment on our Louis Armstrong episode from a couple weeks ago from, friend of the pod, Andy Tyner, who's the legendary trumpet player here in Saint Louis, says, I think you I've been really loving the pod and thrilled you guys did one on Louis talking about Louis Armstrong. He's the greatest to one of the main reasons I picked up a trumpet back in 1986 to try to learn it.

01:17:52:10 - 01:18:07:20
Unknown
You guys have got me back on a Louis listening kick. Not like I ever stray very far from him. So thank you. Your recording picks were spot on. That's Peter hearing pops on those old tracks. Yes, I took I put a blindfold on and started throwing at a dartboard. That was easy. He sounds like he's from some future century.

01:18:08:01 - 01:18:26:10
Unknown
This is some of the rarest music to me. It makes me smile, tap my foot, make lots of stank faces, and weep at the sheer greatness of it all. I'm always listening to different kinds of music, but I always come back home to Louis. You guys, pod has reminded me not just to not just turn on music all the time, but to spend time listening deeply.

01:18:26:10 - 01:18:43:23
Unknown
So thank you for that. Thank you. Andy. Andy's a credible trumpet player here in Saint Louis. What a great comment, man. Thank you. Means a lot coming from you buddy. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Nerd okay. So first of all, shout out open studio shout out open studio Pro. Yep. If you're interested in to that program open studio jazz com slash Pro where we have live classes six days a week.

01:18:43:23 - 01:19:07:07
Unknown
That's right. And we have an incredible archive. We have the number one music learning community music appreciation community on the interwebs from around the world, 121 countries. We have no right. But we do a little thing called the Nerd Nook almost every week, every week, every week. We do it every week. And you know what? I don't even know which are you said basically what we do, we just do a little breakdown of something that we played or one of the tunes, as a little behind the scenes things.

01:19:07:07 - 01:19:25:21
Unknown
So check that out. And you can start a free, transparency trial, pursuit of Jessica. So next time you'll hear.